Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Perhaps the Minister could follow it up and indicate the current policy of the Government in terms of when it envisages carrying out that evaluation. If it is in five years, that would be of concern. I again point out there is a real concern about the commitment we have to equality budgeting and ensuring we know the cost-benefit balance to which we have committed. Even the Government has committed to a two third to one third ratio, for example, in respect of expenditure, tax measures and so forth. I presume that information will be made available annually, even if a full cost-benefit analysis takes longer. I was concerned by that and would like clarification on it. Obviously, we would need to know if, for example, the knowledge development box was to result in billions being taken out of the Exchequer, because that would be of high relevance to our annual budgeting process, both in terms of the ratio between expenditure and tax measures and the equality budgeting commitment. That is important to clarify.

I appreciate that the Department has come some way to meeting us and that it is putting forward the report. Again, I would suggest that before this goes to the Dáil, it may be good to give an indicative list. Unfortunately, our group is not represented in the other House but I think it would be valuable to produce an indicative list of the kind of statistical information and other information the Minister would require or expect in that annual report. It is certainly not comforting to me that the Government would regard it as excessive to have a simple test. It could be as simple as a box to be ticked which states "Yes" or "No" with regard to whether a company has received previous expenditure measures.

When we talk about jobs, we need to be rigorous. I want jobs and I want this to translate into jobs. The Minister, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, was very clear that this is for research and development and is not directly related to jobs, but that it is believed it has that outcome. However, we are denying ourselves the evidence to show there is a link between the knowledge development box and the creation of employment. If people go to Enterprise Ireland or the IDA and say they want to open a factory and produce a device, we currently have no way of knowing that the factory and that production has in any way benefited from the knowledge development box. I know I will be told the knowledge development box has contributed to the creation of employment and enterprise, but I will be told it hypothetically and not based on evidence. It is a bad sign if a company's commitment to research and development is so slight that the idea of ticking a box to indicate it previously received grants is too onerous or a disincentive, particularly given the supposed commitment to working with Enterprise Ireland and all the many robust and important benefits and systems we have to encourage companies to grow. It is a very mild measure.

I note for the record that when the Government seeks to defend the knowledge development box in the future by refusing these amendments, it has denied itself the evidence on that. It will not be good enough to say research and development leads to jobs based on some figures from other countries when we have a significant research and development initiative that we are funding and subsidising from the Exchequer but we have not bothered to make a link between other areas of employment or enterprise and anything that leads to production or jobs. The knowledge development box will be floating, separate from any joining of the dots with other enterprise measures. Any Minister who says we believe the knowledge development box led to this or that employment has denied himself or herself the evidence for that. The hypothetical will not be good enough in the future.

It is unfortunate the Minister of State and the Department seem to be willing to deny themselves evidence for this important platform. If we are serious about the economy, enterprise and innovation, we need to be serious about the evidence and about the measures. We need to ensure the building blocks fit into each other and work together. I want Ireland to be a centre for research, development and innovation, but to achieve that, we cannot simply be throwing pennies into a wishing well and accrediting good things that may or may not happen to the pennies we have thrown in the wishing well. This is an important and simple proposal which would strengthen the hands of the Minister of State and future Ministers who support it. I regret the Minister of State is not able to support the amendments, in particular any one of amendments Nos. 15 to 17, inclusive, which I believe are very reasonable.