Ivana Bacik (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State. We had the pleasure of his company for the debate on the Paternity Leave and Benefit Bill as well.

On behalf of the Labour Party, I support the Bill and I wish the Cregan commission every success on its fact-finding mission into the details of the potential losses at IBRC. The Bill helps the commission to investigate losses incurred by IBRC and, accordingly, the State and the taxpayer between January 2009 and February 2013. Everyone will be aware of the legal obstacles faced by the commission during this work and, indeed, they were identified at the time of the writing the first interim report to the Taoiseach on 12 November 2015. The commission made clear that, in its view, certain legislative changes would be required to overcome legal difficulties in respect of matters, including bank and customer confidentiality, legal professional privilege and so forth, which the Minister of State outlined. Workload management is also an issue and it is an important component of the legislation. Access to documents and information is an issue but capacity of the commission to do this work is also an issue.

The is a bespoke Bill, as the Minister of State said. It is not designed to amend the Commissions of Investigation Act 2004 generally but rather to provide for specific amendments to enable this commission to fulfil its task effectively and efficiently. It has become clear from the two interim reports produced by the commission in November 2015 and April of this year that additional time will be needed. The Minister of State said that its work will extend to the end of October next. Unfortunately, that has been a feature of commissions of investigation over the years. Inevitably, terms of reference are drafted too broadly and as commissions embark on their work, the timeframes become too tight. However, the commission-of-investigation model is a better, more cost-effective and efficient model than that relating to tribunals of inquiry. I pay tribute to Senator McDowell, who, as Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, introduced this model as a clear improvement on what had become the hugely cumbersome and costly tribunal process.

While the costs of running the commission are not insignificant, they come nowhere near the cost to the State of the write-offs under investigation by it. Others have referred to the write-offs of IBRC loans in respect of Siteserv, which cost more than €100 million. However, in total, there were a number of transactions in the period covered with write-offs greater than €100 million. Clearly, the work of the commission will be invaluable in establishing the facts of these transactions. I looked into the issue of the estimated cost of the commission and the latest approximation I have is from the second interim report. Up to April 2016, the cost was estimated to be approximately €600,000 to cover salaries, legal bills, rent, etc., which is relatively low compared to the amounts under investigation.

As Members of both Houses have indicated, the work of the commission was due in no small part to the extensive work done by Deputy Catherine Murphy. She took on significant work trying to establish the facts and raise concerns about the Siteserv transaction, to which others have referred. A good deal of litigation is ongoing, not least the litigation against these Houses being taken by Mr. Denis O'Brien. Those who read the two-page spread on this in last Saturday's edition of The Irish Timeswill be conscious that these are highly complex matters. In a nutshell, the commission is being asked to investigate potential irregularities and flaws in transactions that may have cost the State and, therefore, the taxpayer millions of euro.All of us will support the need for the commission to establish the facts around these transactions in an effective and timely manner.

I refer to the issue of the workload management of the commission. Section 5 of the Bill will enable the commission to operate in divisions. That has become an issue because the commission will need the facility to appointment an additional member or members, if necessary, to work in divisions. Conflict of interest is also an issue. The Minister of State identified that the commission, in its first interim report, pointed out that where there is a conflict of interest involving a member of the commission in respect of a transaction, that transaction could be investigated by another member if divisions were permitted, which is important.

The revised terms of reference deal with workload management. A motion has been tabled referring to a Government order clarifying and amending the original terms of reference. It is sensible that a modular approach would be adopted and that the commission would initially be asked to report on the single identified transaction only - on which most public attention has been focused - namely, that relating to Siteserv which was raised in the Oireachtas. It makes sense to revise the terms of reference in this regard to assist the commission to ensure its workload is manageable and does not become unduly cumbersome, given the breadth of the original terms of reference and the number of transactions it was intended to cover. I am happy to support the Bill.