Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I did not say "we". I asked if everybody in this House and in the other one, decision-makers and the public, which has an interest in this, had. I know everybody is busy but I would recommend taking some time out to read the original business case for setting up a single water utility. Let us put aside what happened after it and look at the business plan and the improvements. Then let us put them together to see if it is working. I totally believe in the concept of a single water utility. Questions around transparency and so on are a different concept but I believe in the business case.

Reference was made to the cost of setting up the utility and it is correct that it will cost €750 million over a couple of years. The business case examines all of those figures and they were set out at the very start, which was two or three years before the final vote in the Dáil. The business case analysed the figures and stated what the set up cost would be. There were no hidden figures, although it may have been more expensive in some areas. It was an average costing at the time of €120 million set up that cost €170 million. The business case went through the fact that it would cost money. However, if one did not go through all those set up costs, the utility could not now borrow money. The whole idea is that Irish Water owns all the assets and can borrow money separate from us, which will help to fund investment in water services. That was why part of the money was spent.

If one analyses what it cost to run 34 separate water utilities, one can see what the savings are. It was very clear that it was not going to pay for itself in one, two or three years. It will take eight to ten years by the time there is a payback for the State. It is built into the contract that Irish water must bring in efficiencies and savings. People have not had time to read that business case, so I suggest they read it and then we could discuss it more. I do not believe we discussed this enough. People said there was a guillotine on the debate but the Bill was debated in this House for two or three years before it came to a guillotine. On the night, there was a guillotine but there was two or three years' discussion before that. However, not everyone got into the debate, including the media and the public. During this period when charges are parked, I urge everyone to look at the business case and the choices. Do have water charges or not? If there are no water charges, do we use more taxpayers' money? If we do so, there is either more tax to be collected or there are cuts in other services. That is the reality because we have no choice but to invest the guts of €10 billion in our water services for the years ahead.

Senator Craughwell referred to the lunacy of continuing the metering programme. I do not agree with him. Metering is the best way to achieve conservation and to educate all of us about the logic of saving water and not wasting it. One of my first trips outside of the State as a Deputy was to Geneva on a global water shortage conference. We are lucky to have plenty of rain in Ireland but other countries do not have it. We have a duty to conserve water and to build that into the mindsets of all, both young and old. Metering helps to focus us on not wasting water. The best example of metering is that it saves leakage. As I said earlier, the truth of the matter is that because of metering, we have saved 48,000 million tonnes of water which, in brass tacks, is the equivalent of 150,000 houses' water usage each year. People must understand this. Apart from the merits of water conservation and not wasting it, if we can reduce the leakage through any method, it reduces what must be spent on building infrastructure in the first place. It costs a lot of money to build a water treatment plant. If leaks continue in the system, then more treatment plants and facilities would need to be built to flush the system. It costs so much to treat water and make it safe for drinking that the leaking water is equivalent to Ballygowan water. That is the cost of it and metering should enable a reduction in the rates of leakage. It will not catch all leaks but it will stop many of them. This continuing work is required whether water charges are in place or not.

I will now return to the matter of the water charges. This is a discussion people must have over the coming months and decisions will need to be made. I will not hide the fact that I believe in water charges at the right price and with the right value. I accept that but this is a collective decision and it is not just about my view or the Senators' views-----