Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I will answer some of the questions asked, and respond to comments made, by Senators. People do not mind paying their water charge when they can see exactly what they are getting for it. A major reason for setting up the commission is to analyse methods of payment, how people are paying and if people can follow their charge to see how it is being spent and to build that analysis into the system. I believe in the concept of paying for water services and I will defend it until the cows come home. I have no problem with that concept whatsoever but I acknowledge that it was not very well explained, the business case was not always well sold, there were issues around transparency and concerns over bonuses, etc. Most of the concerns, if one analyses them, can be addressed but headlines in the media and commentary from politicians of all parties do not help that discussion. The bonus issue was not what people thought it was at all. As with most businesses, the bonus was built into the basic pay. My background is in business and the scheme which was put in place for the Irish Water bonuses was actually logical in order to generate activity and staff efficiency. However, it was never fully explained and I accept that.

I totally agree that the majority of Irish people are quite happy. Although people do not like paying for anything, they understand that certain things such as electricity and phone services have to be paid for. People like to know they are getting value for money, are not getting ripped off and are getting a good service. It is part of what we are aiming to do in building confidence. If that argument is not won in nine or ten months' time, then this House and the other House might vote to get rid of water charges. If the argument is not won to bring people on board - I include Senators and Deputies in this - decision-makers will have to decide over those months what the future is regarding the funding of water services. The question must be asked as to whether a system can be built in which people have confidence. That is a decision for Senators and Deputies.

We must be honest. Senator Humphreys mentioned dishonesty in this situation. One way or another, water has to be paid for by somebody, somewhere and sometime in the State. It is becoming quite expensive to provide water. I understand Senator Black's comments about people who could not afford more charges at the time. I understand it. Trust me when I say that if this could have been prevented, then it would have been. Fine Gael and the Labour Party do not like being unpopular and we do not introduce these measures for fun. We would have avoided it if we could have. Perhaps we could have tried to work around it but decisions were made by the previous Government which forced the timing of the introduction of water charges. We acknowledge that the timing was wrong. However, even if the State could avoid water charges, the expansion of water services had to be paid for at some time and taxpayers' money would have been used anyway. The cost would still be the same for the State one way or another. It may not have manifested itself as water charges but rather as other taxes. There would be a cost as it was not going to go away. This is what must be discussed and decided on by decision-makers, Senators, Deputies and the public. Over the next nine or ten months, I hope that people will come with us on the journey of exploration. People might still decide at the end that they do not like water charges. If that is what they decide, then that will be fair enough. However, let us look at it. Has everybody read the business case behind Irish Water? I do not believe they have. I doubt it and I will not pick on-----