John Dolan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Do not tell me that; I might use it. I thank Senator Black for sharing her time. I thank Senator McDowell and everybody for a very decent and helpful debate. As a result of the referendum, and 100,000 reports in the past, this needs at least to go to Committee Stage and move on. We can start teasing out the tension between various ideas and worries that people have then. There is a tension about the members of local authorities. Like Senator Black, I had my eyes opened going around and talking to councillors, particularly in the area of disability. The effort they were putting in for neighbours and people in their communities to sort out a stair lift or to get kids back into school was above and beyond what was required. We have to find some mechanism to help councillors to be more effective and efficient because their hearts and interest is good and they are real people on the ground. In my native Tipperary, people would say, "John, how do I vote for you? Do I have a vote?", and I would say, "No. There are 40 people on Tipperary County Council, six Members of the Oireachtas and a couple of Senators, and that is it." There are 160,000 people in the county and a couple of dozen were eligible. There is something wrong with the idea, even in Tipperary, that in this day and age one could be running in an election that is almost a secret election. I sat in a café in Portlaoise one day while travelling from one county council to another and saw people coming and going with their children. I thought to myself that I was involved in what one could almost call a secret election. It was under the radar. We had just had a high profile election of Members to the other House but somehow that one did not rate. That is an issue.

Many people believe I first sat in this House on 8 June this year. That is true, but I sat in that other chair in June 2003 when the Disability Federation of Ireland presented its submission to the last review group on this issue. Disability organisations have been the backbone of the nominating bodies on the administrative panel. There is no reason for that; it is just a fact but where else could one have heard a concerted voice or voices around that issue that is directly from that movement or from other civil society movements?

I want to mention something that is somewhat ironic. There was frequently much criticism of past Governments that they did deals with the social partners outside the gates of these Houses. I was involved in social partnership as a disability interest in the community and voluntary pillar. There were 17 organisations in it and we managed to keep it someway coherent, so things are possible. At that time, before the environment pillar was brought in just before everything collapsed here, we had farmers, employers, trade unions and the social services sector. Is that not four of the five panels that we have here now? We had people in here saying Government was doing deals on the outside that nobody knew about and a House that was designed to have characters with some knowledge and experience sitting down in committees, working through issues and being able to say to directly elected politicians, "That is fine, Tim, but let me tell you how things sometimes work in practice". People could then tear through the process. If we do that we will get better legislation and better follow-up and prosecution of what happens after legislation is passed.

Coming back to the members of local authorities, I am fairly sure there are issues regarding their role that might need to be sorted out independently but in parallel with what we want to do here. We should not try to stuff issues, so to speak. If it does not fit, do not try to make it fit. There is useful work to be done. We have now a massive civil society across all the domains which did not exist to any extent in 1937. It exists now. It is diverse, and we are idiots if we do not find ways to bring that directly into these Houses. That is the big value for money exercise we can do for our country.