Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senators for raising these issues. I thank them also for the tone of the debate. This seems much better than the last time we had a discussion on these issues when it was much more adversarial. It becomes difficult to get to the root of things in that kind of environment.

When we made an agreement with the industry we had a conversation around how new customers would be treated. To be fair to the industry, one can have a situation where new customers would come to get a service - from an operator new to them - and they would have the payment plans that other customers would have been given in the previous year. Some of the operators are probably now being forced to charge people at a loss to the company because they have signed up to charging no more than the last bill. There are some companies that are, for legitimate historical reasons, still charging at less than what is costs to provide the service. Therefore, if a new customer comes in to that environment one cannot really expect a company to offer them a charging system at below cost.

There was always the issue around how new customers would be treated. That is why I was insistent that people who were currently paying, and if they stay with their current provider, would not be charged extra.Clearly, an issue arises for people who were having bags collected, in the case of Barna Recycling, but who would not have been considered customers of Barna Recycling because they were only being picked up every now and again whenever the bags were purchased. We must try to deal with that issue with the company involved. I cannot force the company to change but we can certainly try to influence that behaviour to ensure companies are acting in the spirit of the agreement made as opposed to trying to look for ways to get around it.

Likewise, in the case of a large operator in Dublin, my understanding from it was that before it was required to do it on 1 January it would offer an opt-in option to customers for pay-by-weight long before that date because it has the infrastructure to do that now. That company will say it will give customers the option from 1 July if they want it but what I had not expected was that customers who had agreed to opt in to pay-by-weight would now have to opt out if they choose to get out of it. There is a big difference between the status quoremaining as a frozen charge and having to opt in to get back to that situation because not everybody will read the letters that come in and so on. The letter to customers is very clear, but not everybody will be in a position to study the options and make a decision. We are speaking to the different customers

The upside is that the majority of companies are abiding by what was agreed. There are isolated cases that have been very vocal today, understandably, because they are concerned, but by and large the concern I was hearing from people in many parts of the country, and particularly in different parts of the capital city, about the transition to pay-by-weight and the potential cost implications for families is not happening now in most cases. We will meet the industry representative body. If some companies are behaving in a way they think is fair but we think is not, we need to talk through those issues and try to resolve them.

As to whether there will be hikes in charges, there will not. The people who are looking at potential hikes in charges are new customers to companies who are being put straight onto the pay-by-weight system. They would not have been on it previously and therefore they are seeing a significant potential increase in their charge. We need to try to address that with the companies, especially if they are in an area where there is no other option. If the Senator compares the same company operating in Leitrim and Galway, she might find that there is competition in one area where people have other options.