Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 4:

In page 7, lines 12 and 13, to delete "to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years, or both" and substitute "to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years".

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. The explanatory memorandum states that Part 2 "contains provisions to enhance the protection of children from sexual exploitation, including exploitation through child prostitution and child pornography. Provisions are also included to target acts of child sexual grooming." It further states: "A person found guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction on indictment to up to 10 years imprisonment." On Committee Stage, the Minister of State took the Bill and he did not give a compelling reason as to why section 3 had been watered down. Section 3(5)(b) states:" A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable... on conviction on indictment, to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years, or both." The Minister of State made this amendment on Committee Stage.

This begs the question: what offence would the person be guilty of that he or she could get by with a fine? The section does not even specify what the fine should be, stating:

3. (1) A person who for the purposes of the sexual exploitation of a child—

(a) pays, gives, offers or promises to pay or give a child or another person money or any other form of remuneration or consideration,

(b) provides or offers or offers or promises to provide, a child to another person, or

(c) obtains a child for himself or herself or for another person,

shall be guilty of an offence.

These are most serious offences. The best the Minister of State could come up with on Committee Stage was that perhaps previously legislation reflected that judicial discretion would apply to conferring a fine or to imprisonment. On summary conviction, it can be a fine or imprisonment and I do not challenge that, but if someone is charged on indictment, it means a more serious offence has occurred in the opinion of the DPP. If the courts decide that the person is guilty, then he or she is guilty of a grievous crime against a child and it is unconscionable that we would send a signal that a fine is adequate sanction in that scenario. Therefore, I hope the Minister will accept my amendment and revert to the original wording, which was drafted and approved by her and the Government. Whatever lobbying went on to make her amend this should be set aside at this stage. We should revert to sending a clear signal that paedophilia is not acceptable in the minds of Oireachtas Members and send a clear signal to the Judiciary that imposing a fine is not sufficient sanction when a person is found guilty on conviction on indictment.