Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Correct. However, they do not know what is out there. They are not really aware, but that is our job. We all need to encourage awareness, be it through the science strategy or the work with SFI and the discover science programmes. We need to get the message out there and open their minds to it. That is what we are trying to do here. There is a report on the desk of the Minister, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, from Professor Brian MacCraith from DCU about STEM education at primary level and second level. There are many interesting recommendations in the report. I hope we can progress it and get it through the system in the next couple of weeks. We need to be going into second level schools and getting the message across. We have to do it.

Enterprise Ireland produced figures recently which show that the level of female participation in entrepreneurship has gone way up. We are also trying to encourage this. I am sorry but I have not read the report to which Senator White referred. However, I certainly will obtain a copy of it now. I like some of the material quoted from it. We will try to do that because it is important that we would do it. We have actions in this strategy to try to encourage people's participation. I would know it myself given my experience over the past six or seven months. There was a lot more of a gender balance at many of the awards I was at through SFI and in the different grants announced. In some cases a lot more females were leading the charge.

The issue concerns career development and keeping them in the system. Certainly at an earlier stage, for various reasons which we know, females drop out and do not get back in. We will try to fix that. SFI are targeting it, in particular, with new supports being introduced. Through STEM subjects in schools, we need to get them more involved in the first instance. However, one would be surprised at the levels of participation. I was at the BT Young Scientist and Technology exhibition last week in the RDS. I would say there were a lot more females present than males, but we need to keep them in the system and ensure they pick those subjects at third level and continue with them thereafter in industry as well. This is a major area for us.If we have more time I will answer some of the questions, if that is allowed. If not, I can come back to them later.

A study on the interest in STEM was done by Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, recently, Science in Ireland Barometer, and I was surprised by the result, but it was genuine. I do not believe the results of all polls, particularly when they are about us, but this was on science and the importance of STEM. It involved talking to people in their homes, and there is an interest among the public. They do understand the importance of it. The results showed clearly that the parents value STEM; they just do not realise that it is their children who should be doing it. That is the message we are trying to get across and we must work on that. Science Week is another opportunity to open young people's minds to the benefits of the sciences and what they are doing, be it science, technology, engineering or mathematics, and their relevance to everyday life. We would not have an IPhone without science and research, and we need to get that message across.

Senator Hildegarde Naughton is correct about the Action Plan for Jobs process. We now know that process works. It brought about a whole of government approach to creating jobs. It has gone way beyond its targets. We are using the same approach with the science strategy. There are more than 90 actions in this and they are assigned to different people. We will track this implementation body to ensure those actions are carried out. There are ambitions in this strategy but we will not achieve those unless we follow the same logic as An Action Plan for Jobs because it does work. It has been proven to work, so that is what we are trying to do.

There is flexibility built into this plan to allow for change and new ideas as we go along. It is a five-year plan. Some would say we could do with a ten-year science strategy. We could but things move so fast it would be pointless having such a plan. That is the reason it is a five-year strategy but with flexibility to allow for change as we proceed.

The patenting activity is dealt with in the strategy, and some actions are proposed, but also along with Enterprise 2025 in terms of dealing with the low numbers of patents. We want to encourage more and get back to the previously high levels. There will be a referendum on patenting some time this year or next year, which will start the conversation around that issue and encourage more people to do that.

Regarding the difference in the research and development spend between indigenous and foreign-owned companies, through our research centres we are getting them involved. Over 1,000 small and medium enterprises, SMEs, are involved in the research agenda and, likewise, we are trying to encourage more multinationals to become involved also. There is a higher volume of SMEs involved in it, although not to the same level. The idea behind this science strategy and the different supports is to encourage more companies to get involved in the public system and work together because everyone gains that way and gets the best value for their money. That is in the actions in Innovation 2020.

This is about job creation; that is what we are trying to do. The Senator mentioned this Government's success in job creation but much of that is the private sector creating jobs with Government, through our Departments and agencies, supporting and facilitating that, and getting out of the way sometimes, and putting an environment in place that encourages enterprise-driven and sustainable jobs. That is the duty of all of us here, and I know the committee, of which Senator White is a member, does good work in trying to put forward new policies, which is something we must keep an eye on also.

Senator Quinn raised a number of issues about patents which we dealt with. We are trying to deal with that throughout the strategy. He spoke about access to credit and crowdfunding. I am a big fan of crowdfunding. We had a discussion on that in the committee when I was a member. It is not for this science strategy to deal with the different routes to access finance. That is for Enterprise 2025 to do. All those strategies work together but each individual type of funding is not for a science strategy but crowdfunding is an innovative way to do it. It is something I would encourage and of which I would be supportive.

Agrifood innovation is essential. We talk about research-based decision making. What we are saying in this science strategy is that we want our public agencies and Departments to carry out much more research to increase their own spend on research but to use it.

Senator Quinn mentioned fracking and other areas of energy. Fracking is a prime example in this regard. We have not even heard from the scientists whether Ireland is the right place to do it. The start of any conversation should be to ask our researchers and the science community about the story for Ireland, and whether it is right or wrong, and then have a discussion thereafter on whether we want it, but we must start with the science and the evidence. That is why we want to encourage much more of that. If we talk to our colleagues in the science agencies in Denmark, whom Senator Barrett mentioned, we see there is more of an acceptance in some countries of science-based evidence and research evidence. It does not always happen here but that is the duty of politicians. When we have science-based evidence before us we should use it and make decisions based on it. However, we must carry out the research in the first place, and that is what we are trying to do. I hope I have not missed other issues raised by Senator Quinn.

Senator Mary Ann O'Brien raised the issue of the documentary, which I have not seen, on the danger of hidden sugars people do not know about. That was the point the Senator was making. If people choose to eat chocolate they know it contains sugar, and in the right quantities that is fine. It is the hidden sugars in every other product that they do not know about. Senator O'Brien is right that there is a potential for Ireland in this regard. We spoke about research bringing societal and economic benefits, and through our food production we can make inroads in that regard. We will be benefiting society but there will be an opportunity to create jobs also because it is an issue that does not just affect Ireland. We are one of the leading food producing innovators so that is exactly what we should be doing.

Senator O'Brien also referred ti the New York Academy of Sciences Global STEM Alliance. I am very interested to hear about it. It is not something that has crossed my desk but I will check it out. I thank her for highlighting the information because that is what we are trying to do, namely, make it more interesting. Senator White spoke about making the education system more interesting for people to take up STEM subjects. That is exactly what is happening in junior cycle reform. We are trying to make the education system more interesting for young people who have access to all the information in the world. Our duty, as educators, is to make that more interesting and to help them collate that information and use it to do projects, but they are able to get the information. Our duty is to reform our system as we go along.

On the humanities and social sciences, most people will see from the commentary around this science strategy that there is an acceptance that we will try to rebalance it to make sure there are routes to funding for all disciplines, and that all those disciplines are encouraged to recognise the importance of that. There is no better way to do that than in the talent agenda. If we do not fund all disciplines we will not have the people we need coming through the system to operate in the public research system and into industry also. New initiatives have been set up to enable and encourage that. I have met many people from the different disciplines and I believe we have got the balance right in the strategy. It is important that we get a return on our money in terms of jobs and so on but we must make sure the balance is right. That is why the frontier research funding mechanism is included, which the Irish Research Council will drive and publish. That relates to the opportunity and access to funding.

Senator Barrett mentioned challenge-based funding and the opportunity for all disciplines to be part of that and to set challenges. We will try to track the money through the system. We are very clear that there is a balance in this strategy and that it deals with that. In terms of blue skies or frontier research, we can call it what we like. It is allowed for in this strategy. What we announced yesterday in Birr, County Offaly, is proof of the pudding. I cannot be any clearer than that. Some years ago Professor Peter Gallagher might have said he could not get funding for that but he understood working with the system and engaging with SFI. He won an award yesterday which will have a major impact across Europe as well. We are trying to encourage and to prove that if a project reaches a bar of excellence, we can get funding for it. That is the bottom line. It is setting that bar high on excellence. I am probably-----