Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We support the Bill. One thing that was missing from the Minister of State's speech was a reference to the performance of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission in recent years. I understand that as a result of the savings which have been provided for, there has been a year-on-year reduction in costs other than those associated with the banking inquiry or general elections. That is a testament to the efforts of the Ceann Comhairle and the members of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, of which I am one. I think Senator Bradford is a former member of the commission. Frankly, the multi-annual approach that is taken to funding the Houses of the Oireachtas is one that should be replicated across all Departments. The Department of Health would certainly benefit from such an approach if it were possible, as would HSE executives such as Tony O'Brien, about whose day-to-day work many of us are critical. The lack of multi-annual budgeting in other Departments impedes the ability of organisations to correctly plan or identify savings over periods of two to three years. I think we would benefit from an Oireachtas perspective if they were in a position to plan in that way.

I would like to make a point about the issue of legal defences, which came up recently. As a member of both the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and the banking inquiry - I am not publicly discussing any of the evidence the inquiry is considering - I am aware that the issue of the members of the inquiry signing off on the report if there were any legal challenges against us has arisen. It has been suggested that, theoretically, we could be on our own. If there is a challenge, presumably it will be a matter for the next commission, which will be put in place in six or eight months' time after the general election has taken place, to determine whether it is a defendable challenge.

I am aware, from my experience as a member of the banking inquiry and of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, that from time to time the Houses of the Oireachtas Service consults Members of the Oireachtas on what they feel is best but on other occasions it does not consult Members and instead does what it feels is best. I will give an example. Those of us who worked on the banking inquiry for 23 months or thereabouts were told that we could make a decision but that we could be on our own thereafter. At the same time, funds from the Oireachtas pool were presumably used in preparation for a review of an allegation made under the Protected Disclosures Act 2014 by a confidential informant. That review, which was carried out and paid for independently, in effect vilified the confidential informant without carrying out any level of investigation that would be required in terms of interviewing key witnesses or considering material that would have a material relationship with the allegations being made. I would be happy to say that publicly and not just under privilege. I am sure that legal review was paid for. I doubt very much that it was run through the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. I did not attend all of the meetings of the commission at that time because of my banking inquiry obligations.

Although Members of the Oireachtas in their elected roles on committees should be driving the bus, it seems at times that officials are doing so. I suggest that decisions must be made by elected Members from all parties and none, regardless of who they are and what committees they have chairmanship or membership of, rather than being signed off by them retrospectively as in the instance I have cited.The members of the banking inquiry were wished the best of luck and told they had done great work and could be on their own. By contrast, the whistleblower who had come forward with concerns about that process was in a position to be vilified in a quasi-independent review by an external senior counsel who, presumably had to be paid taxpayers' euro, without what I would see as a reasonable investigation. That said, it is a broader issue that Oireachtas committees, the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and elected bodies under the auspices of the Houses of the Oireachtas - the people's representatives as elected - must be the ones in control. There are the civil servants, directors general and public servants who work so hard and on whom we depend so much for their expertise and advice, but the people driving the bus must be the elected representatives, not unelected people.