Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his reply and explanation but neither have fully reassured me. I can understand from where he is coming a little better. This section is about obtaining or providing a child for the purposes of sexual exploitation so there is an intent. I agree in terms of the section on summary convictions, which would be dealt with in the District Court, and I have not put forward fines as an alternative. However, if it is a conviction on indictment, obviously the matter has been regarded more seriously by the Garda and also by the Director of Public Prosecutions. Does it matter whether we take a view that we can depend on the Judiciary? I do not think it does. It comes down to what signal this Legislature sends to the Judiciary. Are we happy to send it legislation which says that a fine is a satisfactory penalty or sanction for somebody who has obtained or endeavoured to obtain or who is providing a child for the purpose of sexual exploitation in circumstances where that is regarded a sufficiently serious offence to be subject to conviction on indictment? I certainly do not agree that it is sufficient. I accept what the Minister of State said about the section being passed. Unfortunately, I only spotted what we had done to the original text as I read the section. All I am asking is for the Minister of State to look at the matter. Can he give us an undertaking that he will look at the matter and come back to us on Report Stage when he has considered the points which we have made? Many people have spoken in favour of this point of view. From his comments, I do not think he has a fundamental objection with what has been said. I ask him to consider the matter between now and Report Stage.

The age of consent can be a difficult enough area. I spent some time, probably ten years ago, on a children's committee. Two of the other members of that committee were the then Minister for Health and Children, the late Brian Lenihan, and the then Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Michael McDowell. It was an all-party committee and I think the parties had their own legal representation. We took a strong view on the age of consent. One of the suggestions that came from the committee - which the Minister of State might consider, if not in the context of this Bill then perhaps in terms of another - is that where two senior adolescents, for example, 16 or 17 year olds, engage in sexual activity, they should be treated differently and perhaps the law should reflect that. I think the Judiciary probably does so. It is different from a situation where-----