Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It was a small amount but, as Senator Norris pointed out, it affected pensions. I will always defend the right of people in these Houses to a pension. The question of how that pension is calculated should be a matter for outside agencies. It is important to remind people that the pay and conditions of politicians were not set by politicians. We need to go back to the infamous benchmarking exercise of 2002, which I consider to be the most anti-democratic action taken in the course of the 15 years or so in which my party was in government. It involved the Government of the day and the trade union movement cooking up this wonderful agreement to ensure politicians and public servants were looked after. Of course, as public servants ourselves, Oireachtas Members gained from that. However, I recall being very uncomfortable at the time about all the money that came pouring out of that agreement in 2002 and in subsequent years. It was morally wrong, as I said when it was done. I remember getting cheques and not having a clue what they were, the only reference being to "arrears". There was a lack of transparency because of the manner in which the deal was done, which was behind closed doors and without any involvement by either House.

Going back to the survey to which I referred, it really brought home to me the point Senator Norris made and on which I am in full agreement with him. Every politician in this and the other House would agree with him, privately if not publicly. The fact is that people in this country generally do not care to know that politicians have taken pay cuts or, if they do know, they very quickly forget it. The general view, irrespective of any reality, is that politicians are lining their own pockets. The reality, of course, is that the reductions Deputies and Senators have taken in the past five or six years amount to a cut of well in excess of 30% of their pay. I am not complaining about that but am simply pointing out that reality and public perception do not always align.

Another source of irritation to me is the lack of acknowledgment of the fact that over the past 30 or 40 years, the average turnover of Members of both Houses at each general election was 30%. As a result of the fluidity of the political situation in the past six years or so, that average might even be higher. The rate of turnover was certainly higher at the 2011 election and it could be high again at the next election. What happens to the people who leave their jobs to come into Oireachtas, serve one term and then have to try to pick up the pieces of their career? It is not easy for them but there is no attention given to their situation by the media. Instead, the focus is on the amount of money Deputies and Senators receive in their salaries. Moreover, the impression is effectively conveyed that Oireachtas Members receive that money from the cradle to the grave. In reality, a significant cohort of people are elected to these Houses for one term only before having to relaunch their career on the outside. What is worse, some accrue so many expenses in the course of their election campaign, they are left paying off bills right through their term.

To be clear, what I am saying here does not amount to a plaintive cry. I am merely articulating certain realities that do not always seep into the public awareness. The only view presented to people is one that says Deputies and Senators are out to look after themselves. There is a human dimension behind the statistics I mentioned that is forgotten about. It is neither remarked on nor even conceded that there are people trying to keep body and soul together and who, once they leave the Oireachtas, find it very difficult to return to their previous line of work.

To reiterate, I am not against these amendments but am taking the opportunity to point out a few facts. As I said at the outset, I realise I will not gain any friends by saying what I have said. I probably will be accused of defending the indefensible. All I am trying to do is point out the political and human realities behind the facts and figures. Despite all the efforts by the last Government, the results of The Irish Timessurvey show people's views are not in line with the reality. I have no doubt that if a similar question were put to the public in respect of this Government, the majority would go for option A, that politicians have increased their pay.