David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I recognise that this section is part of the statutory way in which these things are done. There is no point in reminding me that it is included in a number of Bills; I have opposed it in most of them. The former Senator, Mr. Joe O'Toole, and I opposed it very strongly.

It deals with removing any possibility of any Member of the Senate, the European Parliament or the Dáil being eligible for a position on the board of the National Concert Hall. On the previous day the question of conflict of interest was raised. What utter, complete and total rubbish. People are elected to this House to represent interests. If we had somebody from the board of the National Concert Hall who was involved here, would it not be wonderful to hear what he or she had to say on issues regarding the concert hall? I do not see a conflict of interest. I see an interest, yes, but I do not see a conflict.

We are public representatives, messengers from the public. Among the messages we carry are messages from our particular professional expertise. It may come as news to the Government, but this Senate was allegedly established originally to give voice to cultural institutions. So we are giving voice to cultural institutions and simultaneously they cannot be on the board. To me this is utter and complete nonsense. There is a very strong argument for saying that people from the Senate might make very good board members. The argument is even stronger for Members of the Senate than it is for Members of the Dáil because of the nature of how people are elected. It seems ridiculous to exclude somebody.

Senator Mac Conghail is a very valued Member of this House who speaks with authority on the theatre. Would the Minister ban him? Why is he allowed in here?He should be put out with the cat. Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell was twice a member of the board of the National Concert Hall. Is she now less qualified to be a member of the board simply because she is a Senator? One should bear in mind that the people concerned do not receive remuneration. Nobody can say it is jobs for the girls or the boys because they are piling up money, that it is a disgrace and that it is all an inside job. That is nonsense. It is important to have the voices of those who are at the coalface in the arts represented in Seanad Éireann and also on such boards because the provision operates in two ways; it means that if one is on the board, one cannot be a Member of Seanad Éireann. I wonder if that is constitutional; that simply because of one's position on the board one cannot be a Member of the Seanad. I do not think that is right. Section 23(1)(a) reads:

Where a member of the Board, or a committee, a member of a board of a subsidiary, a member of staff of the NCH (including the chief executive officer) or a subsidiary is—(a) nominated as a member of Seanad Éireann...

What does that mean? Let me ask myself and inquire within. Does it mean that he or she is one of the Taoiseach's nominees? Senator Coghlan is nodding vigorously. Then it is grammatically incorrect because it should read "nominated to Seanad Éireann". I am nominated as a Member; I am nominated at every election. I have to find a nominator, a seconder and eight other Senators to be nominated. This means that from the very moment of my nomination, whether I am successful, and in the intervening period, between the nomination and the election, I am not available to the National Concert Hall, which is complete nonsense. Because of the way it is phrased the Minister is ruling out candidates. It is technically wrong, as well everything else. I maintain that the board of the National Concert Hall would be enriched by allowing Members of Seanad Éireann to be on it. It may well be that no Member of Seanad Éireann will take up such a responsibility, but it most definitely should be open to Members of the Seanad to do so.