David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Why is it for the time being? Is there any uncertainty about it?

Then there is the question of the seal, which is an interesting one. Does a seal exist at the moment? As a question of design, it would be very interesting for a young Irish artist to design a seal. I would like to know a little bit about the seal.

I really like section 7, which outlines the principal functions of the National Concert Hall, which are "to provide and operate, having regard to international standards and good practice, the national venue for the performance, appreciation and enjoyment of musical, creative, artistic and cultural activities including the promotion of concerts and recitals of artistic, educational and cultural value". I will not read the whole thing. It is essential, clear and positive.

I have some worries about Part 3 on the board of the National Concert Hall. The Minister has spoken about the independence of the National Concert Hall but there are very strong powers given to the Minister. I think they are too strong. Section 10 says "The NCH shall have a Board consisting of a chairperson and 8 ordinary members appointed by the Minister" and "The Minister shall designate one member of the Board to be the chairperson." The Minister is, in a sense, the dictator of the concert hall and that worries me. Section 10(7) says "Ordinary members who are to hold office for the periods specified in subsection (6) shall be selected by lot to be drawn in such manner as may be determined by the Minister." The Minister even determines the way they will draw lots. That is a hell of a lot of power.

Moving on to section 11, "The Minister may at any time remove from office a member of the Board if (a) in the opinion of the Minister, the member has become incapable through ill health of performing his or her functions". Hello. What qualification does the Minister have? Surely that decision should be made by his or her doctor. What medical qualifications does the Minister have? There may well be a situation where there is a coincidence and the Minister at the time is a medical doctor but I do not see why the Minister should have that power. The Minister already has the right to remove members of the board for any reason at all. If she thinks they are unsuitable she can get rid of them. Why this business about their health? I do not think the Minister has any role in determining the health of a member of the board. I will return to this a little bit later.

Section 10 says "The Minister shall have regard to any guidelines prepared by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform in relation to appointments to boards of State bodies." Why? What on earth has Deputy Howlin got to do with the National Concert Hall? It is about money but why should he have the same power in regard to appointments? The Abbey Theatre was vitiated for a number of years by the intervention of the Government. Subsection (6) says, "The persons first appointed as ordinary members shall hold office as follows: (a) 3 members for a term of 3 years; (b) 3 members for a term of 4 years; (c) 2 members for a term of 5 years."I do not see why it is necessary. I do not understand the mathematics of it. Is it to provide some kind of continuing governorship? I do not know.

Certain people are excluded from governorship of the board. They are excluded if they make a composition or arrangement with creditors. Many very artistic people get into trouble and go bust. They have major commitments to putting on shows. Making a composition or arrangement with creditors is very different from any kind of criminal activity, for which they should rightly be excluded. I do not see why going bust, making a composition or agreement with creditors should exclude a person. I do not understand it. Although it is standard practice in boards, this does not mean we should not challenge these issues in the Seanad.

Regarding expenses of board members, the Bill states: "No remuneration, other than the expenses referred to in subsection (2), shall be payable to the chairperson or an ordinary member of the Board or to a member of a committee of the Board except where the Minister, with the consent of the Minister of Public Expenditure and Reform, determines otherwise." The Minister, Deputy Howlin, is popping up again. I worry about it.

The Minister and others spoke about making a statement of strategy, and it is very much to be welcomed. The Bill writes off Members of the Seanad. It is a tradition that has always exercised me and I will table an amendment to delete it. Why should Seanad Members not serve on the board of the National Concert Hall? We are appointed on a vocational basis. Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú speaks on traditional Irish music and cultural matters. He would be an adornment to the board of the National Concert Hall. It is not about payment, given that they are unpaid. It is an outrage and is ridiculous. Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell would be another excellent person whom I would like to see on the board of the National Concert Hall and I see no reason that she, or people like her, should be prevented from serving in such a way.

The provision whereby the chief executive officer is responsible to the Oireachtas committees is good. I must address a non sequiturin the second last paragraph of the Minister's speech in which she said:

Part 7 of the Bill gives effect to the change of name of the Irish Film Board. The changing of the name to Screen Ireland or Fís Éireann will reflect the broader remit of the agency as the promoter of the Irish film, television and animation sector. I am very positive about the future of the National Concert Hall.

We went a bit off track there. It is a complete non sequitur. While I understand that miscellaneous provisions are put in as a means of tidying up, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the National Concert Hall, as far as I can see. Maybe I am missing something. I do not like untidy legislation. I like it to be compact and all of a piece.

By and large, I welcome the Bill. It gives recognition to one of our valuable cultural institutions. I commend the Minister on bringing it forward. However, I am concerned about the degree of ministerial power involved. The current Minister is not a tyrant, but is the most delightful and intelligent women. However, it lays up the possibility of people behaving in a tyrannical way. I do not like the intervention of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform at all. The Bill states that remuneration can be paid with the permission of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. I would like to see people squeezing money out of that particular Martin Chuzzlewit. I am very actively concerned about the exclusion of Members of Seanad Éireann, including people who are nominated on the cultural and educational panel. We must allow Seanad Members to be on the board of the National Concert Hall.