Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State is a formidable opponent. I am not surprised that more colleagues are absent. I do not mean this is an accusatory way but this is a profound issue and it will be the major issue of the decade. It is more profound than water charges or arguing about, or because of, territory. I know Margharita Solon who imagined and developed the McAuley centre in Naas, County Kildare. I read all her work and I spent time there during the year. When I spoke to her about older people, she said, "Who are you talking about?" I replied, "Well, the older people who live here." She asked, "What do you think you are?", and pointed out that they are human beings. I take the Minister of State's point in this regard. She referred to agelessness. We will all get old but that is life. I asked Ms Solon what the residents did when they needed a doctor. She said, "What do you do when you need a doctor? You ring a doctor." She was also interesting on cultural change and isolation, whether one is young, middle aged, old, married, single or whatever.

I thank the Minister of State for taking the motion and for standing up to much of my contribution because she is right. However, there does not have to be neglect or institutionalisation. We should put more imagination and creativity into caring for people at home and use templates from around the country, including the brilliant ones in Cork, that are working well. It does not always have to be one way. That is what I was talking about.

I was a member of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee, as was Senator van Turnhout, who seconded the motion. It was amazing. It was the first time that I realised that old people get depressed. That issue was highlighted in results produced by the Centre for Ageing in TCD. One thinks of loneliness but older people do not talk about their depression in the same way. It seems to be the preserve of a younger cohort. The Proclamation states that no one who serves the cause of the Republic "will dishonour it by cowardice, inhumanity...". I was arguing the case for humanity, as was the Minister of State.

The problem about being old is that people are never old, they are always young. We think of them as old. I oppose the fact that 80% of nursing homes are stand-alone businesses. The business template takes over and the residents are secondary to that. The homes have to look into the way they operate.

In response to Senator MacSharry, the Government should examine the possibility of providing the fair deal scheme within the home. It might work because the participants could perhaps hand over a higher percentage of the value of their home when they die. We do not pass on; we die. That is another myth.

Some Nordic countries have an adoption process for older people. I like that extraordinary idea. It works because many couples and individuals are lonely and they would be happy to have somebody to look after. They might not have had the privilege of parents or grandparents and they might love to adopt an older person. There are also crèches within nursing homes in these countries, which is a wonderful idea.

The issue is not money. We need to be creative and imaginative with our nursing home structure because we need nursing homes. I have met the most extraordinary people in care in nursing homes and caring for older people in them through my work outside the House. The arts, music and culture can be used imaginatively in these homes.

I do not want to end my days in a nursing home and neither does the Minister of State. If I was to write a paper as to why, or if she was to talk to me outside about this following the debate, we would outline what is wrong with them. By that, I mean when they do not work for the person and they work according to the business template.

The Minister of State made a good point about a Ministry for primary and social care. She made a massive case for it and she would be good as Minister. If I was in her position with her knowledge built up over the past four years, I might use that platform in the next election. She has been an amazingly communicative Minister and it would be interesting to marry the different responsibilities of Departments for older people into one central Department. They do not talk to each other and they affect people's lives through delays and so on. It is a good platform and the Minister of State should use it, given her knowledge. There is nobody better than her to bring this about.

I thank her for taking the motion. I will return to this issue. It is not going away because our lives are not going away. Time and tide stops for no man.