Seanad debates

Tuesday, 20 October 2015

Marriage Bill 2015: Second Stage

 

2:30 pm

Photo of Denis O'DonovanDenis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I also welcome the legislation and acknowledge how the people voted in the referendum. I compliment Senator David Norris, for which this has been a lifelong campaign of at least 30 years or more and for all those involved with him in what was a long and sometimes lonely struggle. One should also not forget people such as the former Minister, Máire Geoghegan-Quinn, who took what were at the time difficult steps in this direction. The former Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, wrote to the late Brian Lenihan when he chaired the all-party committee on the Constitution in 1999 or 2000 to ask him to look at the position of the family within the Constitution. His term was nearly up and when I subsequently became Chairman in 2002, I carried on that work. We had all groups in and produced an extensive report. All parties, including the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, and Independents were included. I asked the Taoiseach to expand the numbers on the committee to ensure Sinn Féin which was a small party at the time and the Independent grouping were represented. I understand the Green Party was also brought on board.

We recommended civil partnership. At the time the majority of us felt that if the referendum was to take place in 2004 it might not have passed. I put my hands up and say that is how I felt and I have spoken to Senator David Norris about this fact. However, It might have passed. Nevertheless, the hour came when the referendum was held and the majority of the people spoke. Many of those who voted "No" did so for different reasons. It was not all black and white. I come from rural Ireland and have been listening to people on this issue. I was in County Kerry at a wedding some months ago and an elderly priest told me that he knew several priests in his area - he is not a Kerryman - who had voted "Yes" in the referendum. I know nuns who also voted "Yes" and embraced the campaign. We should not forget them either. It is not the case that it was just young people who voted "Yes".

I have a little story about a woman who rang me last Christmas. She is an 82 year old grandmother and was an old Fianna Fáil member many years ago, although she probably no longer is. As if she was going to confession, she said she had something to talk to me about and I said I would listen to her. She is a lovely lady. She said she recently had been in a city in England where she had gone for a walk with her granddaughter who was 21 years of age. Her granddaughter asked her to sit down as she wanted to talk to her about something. They sat down on a bench in a park and her granddaughter asked her if she loved her. She said that, of course, she did, that she was her granddaughter. The girl went further and asked if she loved her unconditionally. She said, "Yes, my dear girl, of course I do." She was wondering if the girl had committed a crime or was pregnant. As the girl had started to cry, she asked her to tell her what was on her mind. The granddaughter said she had come out as lesbian, had a girlfriend with whom she was in love. This grandmother came back and rang me to say that as an old Fianna Fáil family member, she was encouraging me and my people to vote "Yes". I thought it was a touching story and the woman was crying on the telephone. I went to see her because she had gone through a lot in her life. Her husband died when they had quite a young family, which she reared on her own. People like her and other grandparents should not be forgotten in this campaign.

I was amazed at some of the people who voted "No". I was also amazed at some of the people who voted "Yes". There were many people in different circles. I remember the day. I voted early, at approximately 10.30 a.m., in Schull and could see the wave of young people. One could sense it was an important day. These are the people who normally would not come out to vote but they did. I accept that a huge wave of young people did vote, but there were many others in my age group and older who also came out to voted in favour of the referendum. I give credit to the Labour Party, in particular, which for many years had ploughed a lonely furrow, but my party, in promoting civil partnership in 2004, with, as Senator David Norris said, its shortcomings, provided a huge stepping stone towards the referendum. There were a number of events back as far as Senator David Norris's case in the European Court of Human Rights, including Máire Geoghegan-Quinn's step in decriminalising homosexuality, which at the time - I think in 1992 - was difficult. There were many little hurdles; it was like the Grand National. There were so many fences to be jumped, but it eventually culminated in the referendum in which the people spoke. Ten years ago that resounding victory would not have been possible, but the day came and cometh the day, cometh the hour, cometh the man, cometh whatever it was.

We must accept what has been said and I embrace it. We welcome the legislation which is a huge leap for Irish society. We must acknowledge it and not so grudgingly. We must embrace what the people said. We are in a different era from that of 30 years ago when, if I was here as a Fianna Fáil Senator, I might have had big reservations. I might have been jumping and hopping, but things move on. I have moved on, too. I have children, most of whom who were actively involved in campaigning in support of the referendum. I am the youngest of 11 children and most of my family - not all but eight of the 11 - voted in favour. We respect that fact, but there is a huge story to be told. It crosses different levels of society and religious boundaries. One would have the impression, listening to the Catholic hierarchy, that no Catholic or religious person such as a priest or a nun voted "Yes", but I am convinced many of them did.

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