David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I have one cavil with the motion and that is the use of the word "benefit" in the phrase "for the benefit of Italy and Greece". This is not being done for the benefit of Greece, which is being crucified by the European Community and economically is in an appalling state. The economic situation in Greece is a catastrophe and social life there is disrupted. Greece is overwhelmed by refugees landing on small tourist islands. The number of refugees is greatly surpassing the number of people in the small tourist villages. It is not really "for the benefit" of Greece. I do not see any "benefit" to Greece, but I agree that there is a case for relief.

Like the Minister of State, I am proud of the work being done by the Irish Naval Service in rescuing people. When I was abroad at my house in Cyprus, I watched the international news and I saw how the LE Eithnewas being employed to rescue these people. As an Irish man, I felt extremely proud. The Minister of State was quite right to be proud when he spoke about this. He also referred to this country's admission of 500 people since 2009. I remind him that this is fewer than 100 people a year. I do not think it is anything to boast about.

The whole of the Middle East is a very volatile and unstable area. This is largely due to the intervention of Europe. When Mr. Assad took over from his father, many people were hopeful because they saw him as a kind of sophisticated western-oriented man. He had been educated in London and so on. Very soon, we saw signs of extraordinary repression against human rights activists. People were imprisoned and tortured for their human rights activities. The situation became more and more unsatisfactory. There has been a great deal of indecision in the West. I refer, for example, to the dithering about whether to get the military involved.

Senator van Turnhout referred to extra-judicial killings. The extra-judicial killings that really worry me are those done by the Americans by means of drone attacks. I find this utterly shocking because we are supposed to be defending western values. What happened to the right of habeas corpus? What happened to the right to a fair trial? What happened to the right to know the accusations being made against one and to defend oneself from them? Much of this is the product of Anglo-American intervention in the Middle East. This is an inevitable result of it. Of course we cannot turn history back.

I wish to comment on the response of some of the European leaders, particularly people like Mr. Cameron. They initially seemed to see the people on the boats as the target. They intervened to stop their desperate flight across the Mediterranean. They ignored the sources and causes of this war. They did not address those factors at all. Of course it is a very serious problem. I do not take a simple view of it because I understand that the major humanitarian crisis is accompanied by a crisis for the European Union. This is very much like what happened to the Roman Empire. There was a major expansion of the empire. Then the borders became porous and the empire was eaten away from inside, very largely by this kind of penetration.We need to be very careful that this does not happen again. As I have said, the Middle East is a very volatile area, and we can consider the current Russian position in supporting Mr. Assad. Russia has supported him with military supplies for a very long time and was lying through its teeth about it. We intervened but we did not do so decisively. To quote Macbeth, "We have scotch'd the snake, not killed it." There is also the question of the rise of ISIS.

The Russians claim the strikes in recent days have been against ISIS but we all know perfectly well that they have been against the rebels. Various countries are using this issue as a pretext for hammering their enemies. The Turks, for example, have used it as a pretext for further severe military repression of Kurdish sections of Turkey and intervention against the Kurdish population in neighbouring countries. In tackling ISIS, we must consider not just the humanitarian aspect as there is a cultural element. It has used barbaric methods of beheading people, including an 86-year-old architectural expert who was the curator of the great complex at Palmyra. His beheading was filmed. That must also be taken into account.

We must be very careful in making distinctions between refugees and asylum seekers on the one hand and so-called economic migrants on the other. To be an economic migrant is also to be a kind of refugee. Many people left this country as economic migrants and we must never forget that. We can look at the record of the European Union throughout the African continent. I remember a programme on RTE about a small fishing community in Africa whose livelihood was destroyed by an Irish super-trawler, and those people subsequently came to Europe. They were economic migrants but we forced them into that position. We must own up and acknowledge our role.

The scale of this problem is absolutely enormous. The figures are fairly fluid. Somebody mentioned there are 2 million refugees in Turkey but I have a figure before me of 1.7 million refugees. There are 1.5 million refugees in Lebanon, which puts our contribution of 5,000 over five years in a certain context. There are 700,000 refugees in Jordan, 250,000 in Iraq and 120,000 in Egypt. The response of the Irish people has been pretty generous, in the same way as the response of the English people has been generous and undercut Mr. Cameron's position. He had to rethink that because of the strong feelings of the English people. In a survey asking whether Ireland should accommodate 5,000 refugees, 54% said "Yes", which is a very large majority.

I will ask the Minister of State a specific question. The Tánaiste stated recently that we would welcome 5,000 refugees and they would not go through the direct provision system. Is that true? Ms Sue Conlan from the Irish Refugee Council has stated quite clearly that it is not true. She states:

I want to debunk the myth that these people will not go into direct provision. If people are being relocated as asylum seekers within the EU, the only provision for them in Ireland at the moment is direct provision, and it is a form of institutionalisation.

Are these people going to direct provision? If they are being given some kind of enhanced status, and I would not begrudge it to them, it would throw into a very sharp perspective the role of those already in the country in direct provision. I introduced a Bill to this House with Senator van Turnhout that would have addressed the question of direct provision comprehensively. We would have got it through this House but Sinn Féin changed sides at the last minute for completely specious reasons.