Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Yes. The late Deputy John Boland was the Minister who abolished, through legislation, the physical mistreatment of children. On the eve of the 100th anniversary of the Rising, would it not be a lovely gesture? The Proclamation deals with the equal rights of children and treating all children equally. This is one way of doing it. There is no excuse. What one is doing is perpetrating violence by using violence, in that they will use violence on their children, and it goes on and on and never ends.

It would be worthwhile to revisit this issue. I recommend that there not be a vote today because the Minister might find the issue is accepted by the House. The Minister should return to the Government and say this is really serious. Senator van Turnhout has outlined exactly the overall international situation. Ireland is regarded as a Christian, Catholic country. Why should it be out of line? I have been a member of the Council of Europe for the past seven years and I am deputy leader of the delegation from Ireland. I am embarrassed by this matter being raised, when 27 countries out of 47 have accepted the fact that this is wrong.

I do not see any justification for it. I know of the Minister's experience as a medical doctor and I am sure he has experienced children being very scared of parents. If somebody witnessed a person on a train or in the street hitting a child, they would have to intervene but, as far as I know, they would have no right to intervene because the person hitting the child is exempt from prosecution.The Garda cannot intervene. Children can test their parents' strength but it is another thing to resort to physical violence. It is not a question degrees, of saying it is okay to do X, for example, to slap a child on the back or the leg. It is not okay because that begs the question of where one draws the line, as Senator van Turnhout said. One could consider all the different degrees. I am a parent. My wife, Mary, and I did not do that. I would find it very difficult to speak in this debate if I was involved in that. Of course, children drive parents to distraction. It is very difficult but there are ways to overcome it. There are different ways of saying that a child cannot go somewhere or that the family are not going to a particular place tomorrow, so the child can forget about it. There are ways of doing it. It is so obvious. I cannot understand why the amendment would not be accepted. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs is doing great work in Jobstown and other places to protect children. One amendment could change the entire attitude to children in this country. Those who oppose it are the ones who will exercise those rights themselves.

Any parent who is against the corporal punishment of children is opposed to the Government. I speak as a member of Fianna Fáil. I am not mandated to say it but I would be very disappointed if the Fianna Fáil Party did not support the amendment. I support it. I do not consult other people in the party on these issues, I have a gut feeling about them. I have been a Member of the Oireachtas for some time. I have served as a Minister of State in the Department of Health and in other Departments. I know the restrictions on the Minister. I know the advice he is getting from senior public servants, whom I presume are present, and others. Will the Minister reflect on the amendment tonight? In fairness, there was not a vote on the amendment because that commits it too much. In advance of Report Stage, perhaps the Minister could consider the various repercussions and discuss the matter with his colleagues in government. He should be prepared to consider the situation.

Senator van Turnhout has done great work. She has done the State some service. Her nomination to serve in this House by the Taoiseach was a very intelligent decision. The Government appointed so many talented people and she is one of them. She has brought enormous experience to the House. We do not have Senator van Turnhout's level of expertise. We would not be examining the matter in the same depth or with the same expertise without Senator van Turnhout. She has done much research. It takes time to do so much work. She put detailed work into her preparation for the debate on the Bill and has voiced our thoughts, feelings and aspirations. There is no political mileage to be gained. Given the anniversary of 1916 in next year, it would be a wonderful gesture if this measure was not delayed but was signed into law so it would come into force 100 years after the Rising, which would mean that the children of Ireland would be protected from abuse inside the home, outside the home, in schools, institutions and everywhere else. If Senator Jillian van Turnhout can achieve that through her powers of persuasion, her mother would be very proud tonight, as would this country. We would owe her a great debt of gratitude.