Martin Conway (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for the comprehensive outline and I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Ríordáin, to the House yet again.

I welcome the Bill. No more than any Bill that deals with the cruel issue of indebtedness and so on, it is evolving. It has given some credence to the series of recommendations that the LRC has made in this regard. Most people do not want to see someone going to jail for not paying a television licence fee, for example. The revolving door is an issue and has presented challenges to the Prison Service, with people going to jail only to be released a couple of days later. When the fines in question only amount to a few hundred euro or so on, this does nothing for anyone's dignity.

In this Bill, we are bringing our system into line with what obtains in most European countries, and on that basis I welcome it. I listened to Senator Ó Domhnaill, who has genuine concerns. His final point on someone at a job interview facing, as part of that suite of questions, queries about whether he or she was the subject of an attachment order was a fair one. I do not know how to address it other than to make it illegal to ask such questions. I would be interested in the Minister of State's suggestion as to how to get around it.

Everyone is unique, and each situation can be unique to that individual. One cannot legislate to protect everyone in all situations, but what the Bill proposes is an advancement of the common good. People who can afford to pay should pay. As the Minister rightly pointed out, if people in business had no way of collecting debts, the system as we know it would break down. However, that story differs from someone who cannot afford to pay a debt.It is the whole issue of wanting to pay versus not wanting to pay. What is proposed here is a balancing act. I look forward to Committee Stage where we can discuss the minutia and ensure the very interesting points that have been brought up here are dealt with. Perhaps the Government can introduce some amendments to address those concerns. As I said when we discussed the insolvency legislation yesterday, this is all evolving. The Government introduces legislation and if it is proved that elements of it are clearly not working, it is up to us to amend it. That is something we were not afraid to do with the personal insolvency legislation. I have no doubt that if the Government parties are re-elected in whatever form the next time, we will not hesitate in introducing amendments if that is deemed necessary.

Most fair-minded people do not want to see people going to jail over not paying debts. There are many ways of dealing with it outside imprisonment. Our prisons have suffered considerable overcrowding over the years, much of which is down to people going in on the revolving door process. If we can reduce that, it will create a much healthier prison life and environment, which is something we would all like to see anyway. We all want to see our prisons not overcrowded and having some element of dignity. If we can eliminate the use of prison resources, bringing people in on remand for two days or whatever and then releasing them over the non-payment of small fines, that would be a good day's work.

I look forward to the legislation going through the House and listening to the various arguments on Committee and Report Stages.