Martin Conway (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin He is spending more time in the House than some Members at this stage as he is here so often. He is always very insightful when he comes into the House and he is always most welcome. I also welcome Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill, my good colleague and friend, and his contribution. I am sorry to hear about his friend in north County Dublin. Most of us come across situations like that of his friend from time to time and those are the people we need to help and who need to get some solace and satisfaction from the legislation that is being put through the House. I wish the Senator's friend well and I hope things work out for him.

I view this legislation as being an incremental step in the right direction. It is not a panacea to solve all the problems, far from it. At the time of our first attempt at introducing personal insolvency legislation back in 2012, I said that it would most likely have to be amended depending on how the situation evolved with the banks. To a large extent, the Government took a leap of faith in terms of it expectations with respect to the banks, which owe their survival to the Irish people having been bailed out by them, and all the senior management and staff within the banking sector have their jobs as a result of the Irish people. I would have expected more from them, I would have expected some loyalty but banks are slow learners. They are like the bold child at the back of the class, no matter how often you correct them they still do not want to do the right thing.

It is shocking to think that we have to come here and amend the legislation to make sure that there is more co-operation by the financial institutions. That is a great pity. I am not surprised, as I said at the time that the legislation was first introduced that it would most likely have to be amended, depending on how it and the arrangements related to it evolved and whether people would getting solace and satisfaction and have their challenges and difficulties resolved. This legislation is appropriate. It is balanced and reasonable. It will be workable and it deserves this opportunity. I acknowledge Fianna Fail in supporting it, although it has reservations about it, many of which I would share.

Another issue, though possibly not directly related to this legislation, is that of the vulture capitalists who have bought debts, particularly from IBRC. They have set up their own credit control departments. These are primarily American funds and they have retained agents here as their debt collectors who have set up call centres. My understanding is that the people working in these call centres are exceptionally well trained. I spoke to a person recently who was receiving telephone calls from these people and at the end of the discussion they asked if it is okay to call the person on this number. If the person said "No", I am sure it would have sparked another chain of communication but by recording the conversation they are covering themselves by asking at the end of call if it is okay for the person to take the call on this number. They are very personal in terms of some of the information they are trying to take from people. I heard of one example of a person whose family home unfortunately is now owned by one of these vulture capitalists and they contacted members of that person's family to try to come up with a resolution. The debt was €215,000. The person was in a position, through obtaining loans and money from other members of their extended family, to pay €150,000. The person offered €150,000 but was told that the minimum they were settle for was €200,000, a discount of just €15,000 which was less than 10% of the debt. Other legislation will be brought forward to deal with some of these situations but the Government and the people need to keep a very close eye, not only on the banks but on these funds that have taken over the loan books of IBRC. The fact that they have taken over the loan books from IBRC does not in any way remove us from our responsibilities as legislators to ensure that they are not blackguarding Irish citizens.

This Minister of State has spoken at length and outlined the provisions of the Bill and I am not going to go into those. It is important this Bill is passed and that a clear message goes out from this House that we are all behind it, even though we do have concerns, but we want to see it enacted as quickly as possible in order that people will get some financial satisfaction and, hopefully, ultimately retain their properties.