Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit go dtí an Teach inniu. I want to make three or four brief points. Everybody prefaced what they said by saying they would be brief but they did not always succeed; I suppose that is the nature of us as politicians. I concur with what Senator O'Brien said, and he articulated the point well without me embellishing it, but I believe the independence of this House is paramount and any structure in place must reflect that. I urge the Minister to look at the Bill again to ensure it reflects that rather than dividing the House on a Bill on which we should not divide because everyone has the same objective, that is, a system that is robust and reflects the independence of both Houses.The second point is that I do not concur with my colleague, Senator Gerard P. Craughwell, in regard to mobility between the private and the public sector. Public sector jobs are very attractive compared to private sector jobs in many instances. I am a strong advocate of mobility between the public and private sector. There is a depth of integrity within the public service generally which would be good for corporate governance in the private sector. A transfer of such values would be good. There is more dynamism and more of a can-do attitude within the private sector because of the needs of that sector. It is more efficient, and we need to inject that into our public services. That is a challenge to us. I would like to see that mobility and I think we need to facilitate that.

That brings me to the third point, which concerns the selection process of the Top Level Appointments Committee, TLAC. When I was in local government I saw the local appointments committee in operation, which in my opinion was nothing short of atrocious. Some of the appointments were inexplicable even to people working in the public service, who were working with people who were promoted into jobs in which they were way out of their depth. Unfortunately, the taxpayer picks up the tab for the inefficiencies and ineptitude of those people. Unfortunately, we have many such people in our public service. Let me acknowledge that we have also many very good people who would command senior positions in any organisation, public or private, but we need to root out those who are not up to it. In that regard, the selection bodies must be sufficiently independent and sufficiently skilled. That should include outside expertise being called in. I have seen it more in the local appointments committee than in the Public Appointments Service because I am more familiar with it, but the old boys' network certainly worked very well in it. There was no doubt that county managers and others in senior positions were able to pull the strings long before they sat down to select who got the jobs. That is strong criticism, but it is justified. I could go further, but I will not. I hope the Minister of State might address that issue.

My last point arises from observing - as a Member of the House, and certainly when I was a member of the commission - that there is no justification or no logic whatsoever for combining the positions of Clerk of the Dáil and Secretary General of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. It is absolutely wrong to do it. We have heard already about the external activities of the positions of Clerk of the Seanad and Clerk of the Dáil, who sit on various boards and, as a consequence, have to give of their time and their expertise to external matters. For the Secretary General of an organisation, who is on a very high salary, to sit in front of the Ceann Comhairle listening to debates for hours is not the best way to spend hard-earned taxpayers' money, nor do I think it is productive for the Houses. I ask the Minister of State to look at that issue. I would prefer if the Secretary General of the Houses of the Oireachtas was a person whose position focused exclusively on that. I am operatingon the basis that the current practice continues in this Bill, which, from a reading of the explanatory memorandum, I believe is the case. I think the two positions should be separated. The skill sets required for the two activities are entirely different.

When we look around the Houses of the Oireachtas, or any of our Departments, we can see where improvements could be made, where expenditure could be saved and where there is waste. The Oireachtas is not the worst in that regard, but a singular focus is needed on it. It will have a budget of €130 million next year. I do not think any company would employ a chief executive to be in charge of an organisation with a budget of €130 million and have him sitting at a desk twiddling his thumbs listening to debates so that he can give some advice to the chairman of whatever committee is taking place. I do not think that should be the case. I am a strong advocate of separating the two positions. I know it is probably late in the process, but serious consideration should be given and, perhaps, outside advice sought, because it makes no economic sense and it is not in the interests of efficiency and cost effectiveness. It does not make good use of people with expertise that should be applied in the best interests of, in this instance, the running of the Houses of the Oireachtas and, overall, the running of the State.