David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senator. With regard to the Taoiseach's meeting with the leaders of the Dáil, I also find this rather unusual. The last time there was such a meeting, Members of the Seanad were invited and I took part in those discussions in the Taoiseach's office. I had a brief chat with him during the week and he referred to the question of Seanad reform but he never mentioned there was going to be this meeting.

With regard to the lack of a Whip in this House, I think that would be ideal. It works in Germany so I do not see why it does not work here. Members would vote on their conscience, except on crucial budgetary matters. It works perfectly well in Germany. The Seanad is the place for Independent Members, not the Dáil.If we had a disparate group of people it would be quite a problematic task to get them all to join together to defeat the Government, unless there was very good reason. Moreover, they would be reflecting the views of the people. I think that would be a very important step.

With regard to the question of tax, I listened with great interest to what Senator Feargal Quinn said. Of course he made some good argument about taxation to the effect that this House is precluded from dealing directly with taxation matters. However, we deal with the dispersal of tax money in a whole series of areas. That is the important thing. It is not the question of whether these people pay taxes; it is a question of the Seanad dealing with the dispersal of tax moneys.

There will be a vast number of candidates on the ballot papers. I wonder whether people will bother reading their way through them and voting. I tend to agree with Senator Coghlan. I am unsure whether the people are obsessed with the Seanad. They talk about it when it is drawn to their attention but it is not at the forefront of their minds at all.

One thing demeans the Seanad and every political party has been involved in it. I am referring to horse-trading over seats. Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin have all, to the discredit, traded votes to get seats in this House.