Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

In any event, I look forward to the implementation group and I am glad to hear, as we heard this morning, that the Taoiseach is consulting with the leaders in the other House and, presumably, will be consulting with the leaders here as well.

The Constitution lays down that the primary function of this House is a legislative one. It has to do the very same work, in a sense, that the other House does. Some would say we do it better, some would say we do it worse - I do not know. There are many who would say the Dáil might be in more need of reform than this House, but I accept it is this House and this report we are dealing with.

I acknowledge the good work that has happened during this Seanad. The Leader has outlined the consultation we have had with MEPs and there has been the setting up of the consultation committee, which has done very valuable work on quite a number of reports at this stage. There was the hearing with the Commissioner and, while not much has happened yet in regard to EU scrutiny, the North-South meetings are being developed. All of this will give the House an enhanced role. While we still have to ask whether the public want that, I welcome it and I believe other Senators welcome it too. However, it all comes back to how we read the minds of thousands of people, as a Senator interjected, because I do not know what they think.

There was a referendum in 1979 to reform, as it was put, the university seats. No Government has touched this issue legislatively since then, and I look forward to hearing other views on that. I believe very strongly, as do a number of other Senators, that we could not possibly have a system where there would be more voters overseas in other jurisdictions than within the country itself. I think that is totally impractical and some would think it sheer madness, or at least some have very strong views on it, as we have heard. I believe this is something that will have to be trimmed because I cannot see it working. I know the argument about this House not having any function constitutionally as regards dealing with money Bills but I do not believe the public would accept that either House of Parliament should have more voters abroad than within the country to deal with the issues of the day that need to be decided on in an election. They could not possibly have the same concerns that citizens living within the jurisdiction would have about day-to-day matters, budgetary matters and so on. I do not foresee that working.

Senator Darragh O'Brien also touched on this matter when he referred to the position of this House vis-à-visthe Dáil. Some very good work is done here and I believe people could be equally critical, if not more so, of the Dáil than of this House. Until we have a Bill and something concrete to deal with and tear apart, if necessary, we are dealing with a bundle of cotton wool that we cannot get to grips with. Nonetheless, I welcome the report, the fact there is going to be an implementation body and that the work will proceed.

When Mr. O'Toole comes to respond to the debate, he might deal with the issue of the postal system. I do not fully comprehend the system he envisages. I know the ballots have to come back by post but, with all due respect, I do not think we would have the returning officer capability within the House to deal with what is envisaged. I look forward to Mr. O'Toole saying more about this as I believe there will be huge snags in this regard.

I have touched on most of the points I wanted to make but I have been prompted by Senator Cullinane on one further point, namely, the important link between councillors and the Oireachtas. Again, this was touched on with regard to other chambers being indirectly elected or appointed, including regional chambers in other countries. It is very important we have had that since 1937. The link through LAMA and AILG is regarded as very important and we would not want to lose it. I know Dr. Manning and Mr. O'Toole do not want to lose that and it is being retained, although confined to 13 seats. With regard to the vocational aspect, there are many nominating bodies and that number can grow. That is also an important and valuable link between sectors of society and the Oireachtas, and I understand it is also to be kept.

There is this point that we could somehow be less political. Dr. Manning and Mr. O'Toole have been practitioners for longer than many of us and they may have accumulated a lot more wisdom. They know a legislative chamber is going to be political and, of course, the Government of the day will seek to get legislation passed. The Taoiseach of the day will be politically constrained and will still have 11 nominees, so let us be honest, the Government of the day, of whatever hue, is naturally going to want a majority to get its legislation through. To be fair, the Seanad is less partisan and more objective than the other Chamber but, that said, it will still have to be political.

I am very grateful to Dr. Manning and Mr. O'Toole for the work they have done and I accept it in broad outline. I look forward to a Bill. Until we have a Bill we can sink our teeth into, the talking shop will continue.