Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome former Senators Maurice Manning and Joe O'Toole. In our previous debate on Seanad reform I expressed the view that this should be the last report on the issue and that we should move on many of its proposals. Many Members have expressed concerns to me and in the House about several aspects of the report. I hope they will outline their concerns because this is their last chance to have their say on the report before a Bill is brought before the House in the next session. The Taoiseach has informed me that it is his intention to set up an implementation group early to move on matters, with a view to having a Seanad reform Bill pass through both Houses during the term of office of the Government.

On the Order of Business Senator Darragh O'Brien said it was mentioned on the RTE website that the Taoiseach was meeting group leaders in the Seanad today. I have not been able to speak to the Taoiseach, but his officials have informed me that he intends to meet group Leaders in the Dáil today to discuss the report. I have no further information for the House in that regard.

On the last occasion we discussed the report I dealt specifically with the reform of the role, powers and business of the House. I made it clear, as the report does, that the primary role of the House was the scrutiny, amendment and initiation of legislation. I welcome the recognition of the working group that in strengthening and refining the role of the Seanad a stronger institutional system must be prioritised and that Seanad Members should have access to adequate research services, specialist support services, training facilities and technological services. We all share these sentiments. We should have parity of esteem with Members of the other House in all areas that affect our role and the performance of our duties.

The Seanad has sought to augment its role and functions.As the report outlines, these innovations provide a sound starting point for a clear definition and consolidation of the ways in which Seanad Éireann can make a distinctive contribution to the work of the Oireachtas. Our engagement with our MEPs, European Commissioner and officials has brought a new dimension to our work. We had our Commissioner here early last week. Our proposal to scrutinise the EU work programme in many areas would add to this work.

The public consultation process that was initiated has been a success. Our most recent report on farm safety was published to great acclaim and the subject of a documentary on Oireachtas TV recently. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, will be in the House next week to debate the report with us.

The proposals for further debate on North–South Ministerial Council meetings are welcome, as are the proposals to consider the reports of regulators and other statutory inspectors, bearing in mind secondary legislation, etc. To implement these proposals, the Government in power would have to buy in totally to the enhanced role of the House. Ministers would have to be made available and regard attendance here as an important function, bearing in mind the new duties that would be assigned to the House. This cannot be taken as a given considering what could occur under various Governments, as we all know on both sides of the House. The Government must be serious and supportive of the House, which has not been the case in the past. Future Governments must not regard it as an inconvenience but as a strong and integral part of our democratic system.

Let me refer to some of the contentious parts of the report, which deal mainly with how Senators are elected. This matter has dominated all other reports and is one on which one will never have unanimity. We are all clear on that point.

I favour the recommendation that 30 Members be elected by popular vote using the principle of a "one person, one vote" system. That is fair. People want to have a say in the election of Members to the Seanad. The 30 seats recommended by the working group represents a fair balance in that regard.

I favour the retention of university seats, but Dr. Manning and Mr. O'Toole might clarify whether the proposal includes the other third level colleges. The Government has not advanced its proposals to legitimise the will of the people in the referendum in this regard. Do the recommendations imply that the university panel would remain as it is, or that the franchise would be extended to all third level colleges, as envisaged in the referendum passed by the people?

Extending the vote to include Irish citizens in Northern Ireland and the holders of Irish passports living overseas would present many logistical problems, some of which are outlined in the report. Could we have circumstances in which more people outside the jurisdiction would vote in a Seanad election than voters within the jurisdiction? This has been put to me by several members of the public. Also put to me was the old chestnut of representation without taxation.

This is one of the main areas on which Members will probably dwell. We need to be clear on the question of who could vote, how citizens would vote and the number who could vote. I do not know how many Irish passport holders there are, but perhaps Mr. O’Toole and Dr. Manning have that information. If it were the case that more people outside the jurisdiction were voting than people within the jurisdiction, it would not be desirable. This may not be envisaged under the proposals.

I will allow the rest of my colleagues to contribute. Many have expressed concerns to me about the report. I hope the sentiments they expressed to me personally will be aired in the House and put to the two gentlemen in order that they may address them. This is our second time to deal with the report. There were brief contributions from Members the last time, but they will have ten minutes each to contribute this evening. They should be under no illusion that the Taoiseach has indicated that he will be setting up very soon the implementation group, with a view to having a Bill on Seanad reform passed during the term of office of the Government.