Sean Barrett (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister. I second what Senator Michael D'Arcy said about the matter. We should remember the late Brian Lenihan today on the anniversary of his death. Last night we were honouring W.B. Yeats. When he was asked what went on in the Seanad, he said the real work of legislation was done in meetings dominated by "old lawyers, old bankers, old businessmen, who ... have begun to govern the world." There is a feeling of déjà vuthat the old lawyers, bankers and businessmen are back again. The unfortunate aspect of what we are being asked to do is that it brings back the nightmare of 29 September 2008, the nightmare with which the Minister has had to cope every day since assuming office. I commend him for how he has borne the burden.

On page 27 of the IMF working paper, WP/12/163 by Luc Laeven and Fabián Valencia, dating from 2012, our fiscal outlays were put at 40.7% of GDP. This compared with a figure of 4.9% for Austria; 6% for Belgium, 1% for France and 1.8% for Germany. As Senator Michael D'Arcy said, the banking sector has imposed appalling burdens on the country. There is despair that it is happening all over again. I welcome the Minister's attempts to try to have the issue sorted out.

Given the numbers Senator Michael D'Arcy has given us, why is IBRC still in place? When people saw the sign being removed on St. Stephen's Green just around the corner from here, they thought that was the end of it and that it would not come back to haunt the people again, given that the burden has been so great and the memories of it are so appalling. We have been looking at figures such as 100% loans for property, a banking sector that did nothing other than lend for property, hopeless regulation and auditing of the sector by auditors who did not know what was going on in banks that within months would be going to the Department of Finance to seek bailouts.

I worry that NAMA will turn out like the Land Commission which was founded in 1881 and finally abolished in 1991 by the then Minister of State, former Deputy Paul Connaughton. When the State wants to sell something, why does it not put it on eBay or go to Adam's to have an auction? The more hugger-mugger or secrecy there is, the more the public believes secret deals are done which result in claims such as those made in the Dáil in recent days. It is controversial that we transferred massive resources - more than any other country - to the failed borrowers from failed banks and that the burden is still being borne. We have the problem of regulatory capture, rent and subsidy seeking which is likely to arise when there is the possibility of making large amounts of money when doing these deals. Too many at the centre of the banking collapse have paid nothing, while the majority of the people have paid immensely. We know that the recession the banks caused exacerbates inequality. There is considerable evidence from the United States and other countries in that regard. It raises the issue of the preferential treatment of insiders at the expense of the public.

The two zombie bodies, Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society, should have been shut down immediately. It would have been a blow at the beginning, but the economy would now be starting to recover and their assets could have been transferred to those who would have used them better. I compliment NAMA on not being the subject of the stories and rumours we have heard in recent days about IBRC. However, the longer we delay in shutting them down, the greater the possibility that sharp dealing can take place and that the rent-seeking tendencies of so many in the economy will assert themselves. There are subsidy seekers, while there is scope for malpractice. It might be time to finally draw a line under the banking crisis which has done so much damage to the country.

I commend the Minister for the speed of his response in this case. I regret that he has had to do it. He has had enough problems in recent years in coping with the immense debt-to-GDP ratio caused by the banking crisis in Ireland and the public would like to see a finishing date. The real economy is growing again. I know that the Minister has taken measures to promote investment by banks, other than their property fixation. Employment and enterprise are growing and we have benefited from the exchange rate movement in our favour. There are very good reports today from the ESRI. Such positive things will always be welcome, but the banking matter we are discussing revives awful memories of a terrible time at huge cost to the economy.