Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour) | Oireachtas source

-----representing the SME sector and are SME owners. People in trade unions and civil society have spent their entire working lives and, in some cases in voluntary capacities, representing the interests of working people. In many cases, they represented the interests of working people at the margins and those working in sectors of the economy associated with low pay. I can assure the House that not only will the commission sit behind desks, assiduously analysing detailed economic and statistical data, but it will also be obliged to engage on a face-to-face level with employers and people working in low paid sectors of the economy across the country to understand the lived experience of managing a business in a low paid sector of the economy and those associated with sectors of the economy that may be synonymous with low pay or difficult sectors. It will engage at that level with people who are working, merely to exist on very low wages in those sectors. It is important that it also considers the lived experience, and not just hard statistical data. I have asked it to do so and it is clear from its modus operandithat is what it will do and what it has been doing over the past few weeks since the establishment of the commission on an interim basis.

The establishment of the commission is a very important Government commitment and is part of our dignity at work agenda. I thank Senator White for her comments. We are at one on that. As I said, it complements the work being undertaken in a number of other areas, including the study on zero-hour and low-hour contracts, and I expect that report to be completed in the third quarter and delivered to me. I look forward to considering its findings because in many ways it will be seen as a companion piece to this Bill.

Where the evidence points to adjustments being required in legislation and regulations to enhance the protections already in place in employment law, we will bring those recommendations forward for consideration by the Government. We will take action. We always have to be aware of the need to balance fair pay with sustainable pay.

I appreciate the concerns expressed by Members. The Low Pay Commission is designed in such a way so as to make sure that we approach this entire project on an objective and evidence-based basis and try to balance the needs of SMEs that want to create quality jobs with the need to make sure that work always pays. That is something that we can achieve and which has been achieved elsewhere, and I am confident that we can do that.

What we will not do is preside over an economic recovery which involves a ruthless race to the bottom. We will not engage in a situation where anybody is expected to sacrifice the hard-won economic and social rights that have been achieved by each and every party represented in this House since the foundation of the State. I make no apologies for saying that, as economic recovery takes hold and unemployment continues to fall, we expect to see the benefits of that recovery impacting on the lives of everyone across the country, regardless of the jobs people have or their aspirations.

We want to see better working conditions for people and improved pay, particularly for low-paid workers. The Low Pay Commission can assist in providing the institutional framework to ensure that happens. The reality is that we are all winners, and society in general wins, when we move people out of poverty by providing decent jobs. Of course, industry cannot prosper without consumers who are in a position to buy the products that industry produces and they have to be willing and able to pay for the goods and services that our business community provides.

I want to put on the record of the House something I have said publicly time and again. I want to see the national minimum wage increased progressively, where the economic circumstances and the demands of job creation and social conditions and requirements converge. As I have said throughout the crisis, the Government has been committed to maintaining employment rights and protecting the most vulnerable of workers. Where changes have been made they have been positive. In fact, we are one of the few democracies across the developed world which, during and after the great recession, took the opportunity to enhance employment rights, legislation and regulation. That is quite unique and stands to us as a society and State.

We re-established the joint labour committee system. I am now in the process of bringing forward legislation in a matter of days to introduce enhanced collective bargaining rights in this country and re-establish a constitutionally robust registered employment agreement system which, as we all know, is of particular interest to workers in certain sectors of the economy and companies that are quite topical.

We have clearly demonstrated our commitment to the well-being of lower paid workers, in terms of the suite of additional legislative protections we have or intend to introduce. Having returned the economy to sustainable economic growth through the Action Plan for Jobs and Pathways to Work, we want to make sure that the economic recovery is felt by everyone in our society. It is clear that the Government is succeeding in turning around the economy and improving the lives of citizens. I mentioned earlier that for the first time since 2008, unemployment is now less than 10%, at about 9.9%. It will fall further and I expect and hope to see that we could get the level of unemployment down to about 9% or lower by the end of this year. That would be a great credit to industry in the economy, society in general and some of the initiatives we have taken as a Government to make sure that we have a strong, sustainable and progressive economy.

I will turn to issues raised by Members. I thank Senator White for her well-informed remarks. She comes at this from the perspective of a business owner and somebody who is concerned about the situation in which low-paid workers often find themselves. I welcome her remarks.

I take on board the remarks of Senator Mulcahy on how we need to be responsible in terms of any adjustments that may be made to the national minimum wage and be acutely aware of the needs of business and its ability to create good, decent, quality and sustainable jobs. This is, fundamentally, what the Low Pay Commission is about, namely, having a balanced, evidence-based approach.

Senator Cullinane made some remarks, many of which I do not intend to address in his absence. However, I appreciate the concerns he raised about the SME sector. SME owners are often, as I know from my previous experience, the last people to get paid in any organisation, if they get paid at all. We need to be very conscious of that. The number of part-time workers in the country is reducing quite radically, which might be a picture the Senator and his party are not prepared to accept because it does not necessarily fit in with his particular narrative of how our economy operates and progresses, and how we are constantly adding good full-time jobs to the economy.

I will not take any lectures from the Sinn Féin Party about this Government's approach to the low-paid. Many trade union officials who are based in the Republic of Ireland, but have a mandate for Northern Ireland as well, have said in recent weeks that Northern Ireland is a low-pay economy.No action whatsoever has been taken by Senator Cullinane's party in recent times to protect or further the interests of the low paid. That compares very poorly with the record of this Government and many people in this House and in the other House in terms of their actual and real commitment to improving the lives of people who are merely existing on low pay. The Sinn Féin Party has done nothing whatsoever in Northern Ireland to protect the interests of the low paid, other than make cynical statements, and used them as cheap electoral fodder. In fact, the issue of low pay is quite pronounced in Northern Ireland and we have seen no action whatsoever from that Administration which has the Sinn Féin Party at its centre. I take Senator Cullinane’s words and those of his party with a very large pinch of salt.

Senator Craughwell contributed to the Bill. There is an ambition in the Bill to adjust the national minimum wage incrementally upwards over time, but it is correct that it needs to be grounded in economic reality, and taking into account the challenge we have in terms of creating jobs and ensuring that we remain competitive, among other factors. I am not someone who believes competitiveness is what it is all about. I object to those who use competitiveness as the primary reason not to increase wages. There is a very strong basis for those of us who believe that wages should be increased to continue to say it and to back it up with evidence in the future as we return to more normal economic activity and as the economic recovery beds down.

I have taken issue, and will continue to do so, with statements made by some representatives of business organisations who appear to be against the concept of a national minimum wage in the first place. That is not representative of all such organisations. People are entitled to their opinion. I recall a conversation I had recently with a senior figure in the Confederation of British Industry who told me that when the Low Pay Commission was established in the late 1990s in the UK, the view of some of his member organisations was that the sky would fall down, that it would be terrible and competitiveness would be adversely affected. In fact, one now finds that the business representative and the trade union representatives on the Low Pay Commission are extremely proprietorial about their membership of the commission and defend their independence from Government vehemently. They have seen the benefits in terms of economic planning and business planning of frequent adjustments to the national minimum wage. Such an approach allows businesses to plan properly and also allows the State to plan. What we have is a situation where we will enshrine in law a date each year by which the Low Pay Commission will have to return its recommendation to the Minister of the day. We specify 15 July and that will ensure the Department of Finance, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Department of Social Protection prepare their Estimates in advance of the budget that any adjustments made are done in such a way that they do not conflict with either the social welfare system or the tax system.

Senator Craughwell outlined his concern that the change might not impact in too positive a way in terms of people who are living in poverty and are surviving. He stated that it is not a revolution. It is not, but where we get strong, sustainable change is by reforming our institutions in this democracy. That is what we are doing. That is why I have said, time and again, that this is one of the most important initiatives taken by any Government in recent years. The Government is serious about trying to address the systemic issues concerning low pay in this country, including intergenerational issues with low pay and poverty. The best way to address the issue is by bringing the social partners and experts together to work with the Government to try to address all of the very complex issues involved in low pay.

It is wrong of Senator Cullinane to continue to trot out the nonsense that the Low Pay Commission is simply about revising, adjusting or examining the national minimum wage each year. It is about much more than that. We set up the Low Pay Commission on an interim basis in February and it takes time to address issues concerning a recommendation for the national minimum wage. The organisation is in its infancy at the moment. We are now setting it up on a statutory basis. To a large extent, that is what this Bill is about. It is certainly about much more than the national minimum wage. We will ask the Low Pay Commission to do other work in the future to address areas about which we are all concerned and to advise the Government in an expert and evidence-based way about the best approaches to take right across the Government to ensure that work always pays, that people have dignity at work and that those in work do not rely on continual State support from the taxpayer. Anybody who works hard for a living is entitled to a decent week’s pay for a decent week’s work. I welcome the contributions from colleagues in the Seanad. I look forward to their contributions at further stages of the legislative process. The Bill is very legislation that can have a transformational impact on people who are currently living on low pay. It will be an important institutional reform for vulnerable workers in society.