David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the contributions of the former Senators Dr. Maurice Manning and Mr. Joe O'Toole. I note that the three members of the group who are present, Dr. Manning, Mr. O'Toole and Mr. Magner, are former Members of this House. They have done us a great service with this distinguished work. However, without the legislation which I look forward to seeing, to a certain extent, it is a booster rocket without the payload. As we do not have the payload, I look forward to seeing the Bill and analysing it in some detail.

It is disappointing that less than one third of the Members of the House are present. I would have expected a full attendance. I also note with interest but without surprise that there is not a single member of the press present. The press have spoken about the relevance of this House and the lack of interest in reforming it, but where is the interest in reform on the part of the media? Where are they? Perhaps they are in their offices watching. That is what is said about Members of this House. However, I will pass over that aspect.

I have campaigned for 40 years for the amendment and reform of this House and this is the first time I see it as a practical and realistic proposition. I commend the members of the working group for having set down a series of stages. First, there is the publication of the report and the legislation; then there is the creation of an implementation body which is vital, to be followed by getting the President to sign the Bill before the dissolution of Parliament. If this can be done, we will have a reformed Seanad.

I welcome and applaud the opening up of voting procedures and the electoral requirements for Seanad Éireann. This would transform the House. It does not mean that any of the current Members would not be re-elected because I cannot think of any Member who is unworthy of his or her seat.

I wish to turn to the publication. The word "elitist" which Dr. Manning used twice really irritates me. It is always attached to the university seats, for which there are 150,000 voters, 150 times the number of voters for the 43 panels and 150,000 times the number for the Taoiseach's 11 nominees. Why not reduce them as a constitutional imperative and why not make recommendations for constitutional change, including regarding the ludicrous notion that we are incapable in this House, with experts such as Senators Sean D. Barrett and Feargal Quinn, of being trusted with money? We cannot even have a proper opinion about it, whereas Members of the other House made a complete dog's dinner of the economy, despite what was said in this House in warning against it.

There is a recommendation regarding practical and working knowledge on the part of members of the panels. How does one get this? How does one know that somebody has working knowledge and practical experience? It requires an affirmative process ensuring all candidates meet the appropriate level of knowledge. We must spell out how one achieves this. Perhaps it will be included in the Bill.

I will return to the issue of the university seats. I have one practical question. The group states elected Members of the Oireachtas and elected members of local authorities would register for the panel of their choice, with the proviso that each panel would have no less than 18% and no more than 22% of the eligible voters in a manner to be prescribed in the legislation. How would this be done? I do not see it. For example, if 53% of the Irish people decided they wanted to vote for persons on the agricultural panel but only 18% were allowed to do so, what would one say to the others? Is it, "First come, first served; so bugger off and join the universities"? I do not understand how it would work. With regard to the university seats, I am very interested in what was said, that the working group left them alone because the Government had published recommendations. Those recommendations were made in 1979 which is a hell of a long time ago. That is about 40 years ago and things have moved on. The whole third level sector has exploded. The Government has said there will be 850,000 voters, which is an enormous number. Here again, in comes the new thinking by the group. I am computer illiterate but I am in a very small minority here. Cyber voting, despite my computer illiteracy, is an efficient way which will allow expansion. However, we have to have access to the names and to the register of the e-mail addresses of these people. This is what is completely flawed in the university system. I have appealed time and time again for access to my university's register of e-mails but it will not give it. I do not know why but they are very precious about it and they will not give it. That information will have to be given out.

With regard to university constituents, I still believe that there is a special character in the two different university constituencies which I would like to see maintained. It is no accident, for example, that of the three members representing the University of Dublin, two are Church of Ireland members and the other is a humanist. That is completely different from any constituency in either House. In fact, we are the only two Church of Ireland members in the entire Oireachtas. How did we get in here?