Seanad debates

Friday, 27 March 2015

An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage

 

10:30 am

Photo of Katherine ZapponeKatherine Zappone (Independent) | Oireachtas source

It is good that the issue of the Title of the Bill has been raised. I am happy to speak on it and have listened to all of my colleagues' contributions.

Before I discuss the substantive issues and without taking long, it detracts from any strength that Senator Mullen's argument might have to speak about the "ruthlessness" of people in power or the Government's "arrogance" or "emotional manipulation". It would be sufficient for the Senator to make his arguments without making such unfounded accusations.

Senator Walsh raised a point about the use of the word "ideology". We all have ideologies. "Ideology" is not a negative term. It is a neutral term. The civil rights movement out of which I have been operating in respect of this Bill has ideas, concepts and values in which it roots its practices and actions, just as the Senators' do. I experienced something being named a "gay ideology" as an effort to denigrate or side-step. The Senators probably do not mean to do that, but we all operate out of ideologies.

The argument from Senators Walsh and Mullen is that we should change the Bill's definition to avoid the Title being loaded or leading people one way as opposed to another. I respectfully disagree. This Title is accurate, not loaded or leading. To add the word "equality" to "marriage" is not to use the phrase of a lobby group as much as it is to use a word that is a foundational, philosophical and ethical category. I respectfully suggest that using the words "loaded" and "leading" as distinct from "accurate" is rooted in the Senators' views and their plans to vote "No" in the referendum and to argue that this is not about equality, but about changing the definition of the traditional family and a child's right to a mother and a father. The question is whether that stance reflects an accurate view of what the Bill is about. This is about equality, voting "Yes" or "No" to equalising homosexual and heterosexual people's rights to marry. The Senators say "No". I respect that. They do not believe that we should equalise people's rights to marry because of questions about children and gender complementarity. While I respect that stance, I disagree with it.

The Bill is about equalising people's access to recognition as families under the Constitution. Lesbian and gay couples are not considered constitutional families whereas heterosexual married couples are. Lesbian and gay couples do not have that recognition, but the majority of heterosexual couples do. The Bill is also about equalising the rights and status of children of heterosexual, lesbian and gay couples. The children of lesbian and gay couples do not have equal status under the Constitution because their families do not have constitutional protection.

The Bill is about equality, so it is accurate to use the term "Marriage Equality". This is why I will not support the amendments. To call the Title misleading or loaded is rooted in the Senators' views of what marriage ought to be.

Senator Walsh argued that it was a human right to marry and asked the Minister where that right was protected in the European convention. I will say a few words on why people want to marry. The European Court of Human Rights, ECHR, has acknowledged that marriage confers a special status on those who enter it, the right to marry gives rise to social, personal and legal consequences and marriage is a public undertaking carrying with it a body of rights and obligations of a contractual nature. It is true to say that, in 2010, the ECHR held that Austria had not violated the European Convention on Human Rights by not providing for same-sex marriage. However, it is important to remember that, in the same judgment, the court stated that it no longer considered that the right to marry under the convention had to be limited to persons of the opposite sex.The basis for the court's judgment that Austria had not violated the convention lay in its view that "marriage has deep-rooted social and cultural connotations which may differ largely from one society to another". For that reason, the court was not willing to impose its judgment against Austria. It is very important to remember that the court also stated that it is no longer considered that the right to marry must be limited to persons of the opposite sex. It is worth pointing out that the court has always adopted that deferential stance in relation to sensitive issues. The European court has been deferential. A number of European states, subsequent to when we took our own case, have eventually come to argue for, include and provide for the right to marriage for same-sex couples. Europe is going in that direction.

The ultimate question is one of the impact of the issue that is before the Irish people. This is not like what happened in Senator Norris's case, when we were one of the last groups in Europe to come on board in relation to decriminalising homosexuality. The court ruled against Ireland because there was an emerging consensus. In this regard, we could be one of the leading members of Europe. We do not have to be at the back of the bus in relation to this one. We can take the change in relation to this issue and help that emerging consensus with regard to Europe. That aside, it is true to say that the European court has not said that the right to marry is necessarily outside the scope of the convention itself.

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