Rónán Mullen (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister very much for his open and thoughtful response to my amendment. An issue arose during my time in the Oireachtas which might illustrate the concern I have and which may be of assistance to the Minister and his officials. I think it is probably on point, but I would welcome the opportunity to tease it out with the Minister further, although not necessarily in this immediate forum. The Minister will come back with his response and we will look at what might happen on Report Stage. Speaking from memory, a number of years ago the former Minister for Defence, Deputy Shatter, brought forward legislation in regard to defence which had to do with the appointment, and the criteria for appointment, of military judges. I came to have information - other Members, including Senator O'Donovan, were also familiar with the issues involved - that in effect, the legislation was designed to undo a problem that had occurred whereby the person that the Defence Forces leadership proposed to appoint to a particular position could be said, it seemed, not to be technically qualified for the position. As a result, legislation was brought forward which widened the criteria and, in effect, would have retrospectively enabled the appointment process to open up again and to facilitate, under the new headings and under the new legal requirements, the appointment of the particular person. It did not come to pass that this particular person was appointed to the job in question. That probably had to do - excuse my language - with the stink we created about this issue in this House. There were two issues. The first was that the then Minister, Deputy Shatter, did not disclose to us - nor were Members of the Oireachtas briefed to this effect - the back-story of that legislation to widen the criteria for appointment of military judges. The other issue was that a proposed appointment had gone wrong and an issue had been raised internally within the Army about whether that person could be appointed to that post. My point is this: if I had not been briefed by certain persons that this was the back-story, I would not have been able to do my job as a Member of the Oireachtas and ask hard questions, not only about the content of the legislation but about why it was before us in the first place. I was subsequently contacted by the military police, as was their right and duty, to assist them with their investigation of a possible leak from the Defence Forces and so on in breach of the law, and obviously, with due regard to my prior duty as a Member of the Oireachtas, I declined to make any statement. I still have not made, and I will not be making, any statement about where I got the information. If that information, for example, had come from a representative body, it seems that this kind of disclosure by a representative body would attract attention.

We should remember that this was a disclosure made to enable me and other Members of the Seanad to challenge legislation, policy and the initiation, development or modification of what was public policy or a public programme, namely, the bringing forward of legislation around making certain State and State-funded appointments. It was exactly that kind of situation I had in mind when bringing forward this amendment, namely, that people concerned about certain legislation being enacted, which they believed was in furtherance of some agenda which was not being fully disclosed, would not be in a position to approach me if they had to register as lobbyists because they were approaching me in order to get me to oppose certain legislation. I would be happy to say more to the Minister privately about the circumstances but the memory of that instance caused me to look with particular concern at the Bill as it currently stands. It is difficult to talk about it in retrospect given the need to protect those who disclosed information to me. In the light of that personal experience I am concerned about the Bill in its current form. I look forward to possible engagement with the Minister in that regard.