David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I will be reasonably brief, because it is clear that the Minister of State will not accept the amendments. However, he is not quite so clear on whether he will not consider the matter for Report Stage. I urge him to do so. This is a radical series of amendments, but "radical" just means that it goes to the root of the problem. It comes from the Latin radix, meaning "root". We should be going to the root and protecting young people.

The Minister of State referred to protecting children, but that is not what he is doing. I can speak with some authority on this matter, as I have been grotesquely misrepresented in this regard. What the Minister of State is discussing is the political reality that if one does anything on the issue of children, one will be subjected to intense scrutiny and one's motives will be misinterpreted, particularly where the children are young. People will misinterpret what is stated and talk about parental rights, the family and this, that and the other. The entire area of children is a minefield. For this reason, it is necessary that the House have Independents who are not so subject to the whims of political and public opinion and the kind of nonsense that is stirred up by certain elements in the media. It is not a question of sensitivity to children or of protecting their rights. It is actually a question of protecting the political base. People will not get involved because there may be misinterpretation. This is my view of the situation.

This is an important matter, as the people who are the subject of the Bill are at their most vulnerable. They will not be protected by this legislation. I hope the Minister of State will take a further opportunity to reflect on the matter calmly and to determine whether, in light of the arguments and the substantial volume of legal precedent that has been put on the record by Senator van Turnhout and others, it is possible for the Government to move in a more radical fashion. The Minister of State would generally have the support of the House. I have heard no one on the Government side speak effectively against this proposal. Indeed, Senator Keane has indicated that, in her experience and from her reading of the scientific material, gender identification generally takes place at an extraordinarily early age - from three to five years old. That is obvious. Was it something that the public did not know? We should be in advance of the public, not led by it. In legislation such as this, we should be leading and informing public opinion. I doubt whether the people of middle Ireland are glued to their computers, assuming this is even going out on computer. I very much doubt it. Maybe the people are glued. In some small way, this debate will contribute to their education.

It would create a good headline if the Minister of State were to give an indication that he would at least consider this matter in future. We in Seanad Éireann understand the political difficulties of anything dealing with the welfare and rights of children, particularly when there is any suggestion of sexual identity, sexuality or so on. The entire Chamber would support the Minister of State were he to give an undertaking to consider this issue ahead of Report Stage. He could then tell us that he had decided against it and we would argue it again. I appeal to him not to close his mind. This is a new and radical area, but the Seanad is a place where it is appropriate to be radical.