Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The reason I asked the Minister of State to speak first - for which I thank him - is that the response shows the complete inadequacy of the Government's proposal with regard to the oversight of Irish Water. The set-up costs of this company amount to nearly €1 billion thus far.

I served as Vice Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts in the last Dáil. When Government agencies and semi-State bodies are not covered for audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General and as a consequence by the Committee of Public Accounts, this leads to incredible frustration. I use the example of RTE, for argument sake. People were frustrated with the level of expenditure in RTE which was at a much lesser level than in Irish Water. The only way the Committee of Public Accounts could question any of those aspects of RTE was to call in the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. This is not satisfactory.

In this instance a company is being set up which the Government has described as the biggest State company to be set up since the ESB. While at this stage the ESB is not covered by the Comptroller and Auditor General I make the point that Irish Water is a new company with all the teething issues, set-up costs and problems. These problems have been discussed and interrogated by the Oireachtas but, with all due respect to the Minister of State, I do not think it is sufficient that audited accounts go to the Minister and that expenditure and revenue will be subject to oversight by the Commission for Energy Regulation. I say, absolutely no way.

The biggest deficiency - if one could say that - within it is that this company, Irish Water, Uisce Éireann, will not be subject to audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General. It is generally agreed that office has done exceptional work for the State since its foundation. It is completely independent and it has the support of State resources. It cannot be influenced in any way, shape or form. If this company were audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General it would be subject to questioning by the Committee of Public Accounts, the main ranking Dáil committee. This is the only committee with any power whatsoever to interrogate State agencies and Departments and to issue recommendations.

Section 9 deals with superannuation but we must try to find somewhere to fit this amendment. For the House to allow this legislation go through at this very late stage with all the problems associated with its set-up and its management and not to have proper independent financial oversight, would be a total derogation of our duty as Senators.

Many other very important amendments have been debated, including some excellent amendments proposed by the Opposition as there were no amendments tabled by the Government side of the House. All these amendments have had merit. The Government is allowing a company to be set up and to proceed despite all the problems over the past two to three months and it has decided that the company will not be within the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General, that is, within the remit of the Houses of the Oireachtas. The audited accounts will be presented to the Minister. If this happens next year I will be forced to table an amendment on the Order of Business and to ensure that the Government agrees to the amendment so that the accounts may be discussed in this House - which has never been done, in so far as I am aware. I know it will never happen because the Government has a majority of over 50 which is just about a working majority. The bottom line is that unless the Government wants those accounts examined by Members of the Oireachtas, it could not happen if this amendment is not accepted.

The Minister of State referred to a desire for transparency, therefore, there is no reason on this wide earth for this amendment not to be accepted. He said that other commercial semi-State bodies do not fall within the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General but I maintain that Irish Water is a very special utility, for want of a better phrase. It is about water in Ireland and the management of the water network. This is the company that has already spent almost €180 million on consultants for its setting up. The then Minister, Phil Hogan, said he knew nothing about it and then we found out after the event when he has gone to Europe that he did know about it. Any other State agency would be hauled into the Committee of Public Accounts immediately. This company plans to borrow for investment in water services, an investment which has fallen, year on year.

Since 2009, investment has plummeted in water services. The Minister of State will be aware of documents obtained by RTE today under the freedom of information regime. It has absolutely plummeted and Irish Water is looking to have a further reduced capital investment next year in 2015 - less than this year.