Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I accept this amendment was tabled in the right spirit. The rationale for the establishment of the customer consultative forum is to provide a voice for Irish Water's customers and to give them a greater influence on how Irish Water will work and operate. It is a good process and something which mirrors processes and practices in similar types of utilities.

Section 7 provides that the Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, shall be required to establish the forum. It also provides that the Minister may make regulations in respect of the composition of the forum. It is critically important that the forum is fully representative of a multitude of interests and concerns held by various different stakeholders in Irish Water, including its customers, and that a learning process is part of it. This will include, among others, household customers in various categories and non-domestic customers and will be a much broader group than that proposed in the very restrictive terms of the amendment. Therefore, I will not accept the amendment.

My intention is that this forum will be of significant benefit to Irish Water. I will set out the regulations on how it will work and operate. I intend to set them out in a draft format and send them to the Oireachtas joint committee. This committee can study them and make changes, comments and considerations in whatever shape or form they so choose. It can then come back to me and I will take on board its recommendations and suggestions on the forum. That is why this section is not detailed and is not very specific on the regulations and how the regulations will be set. This is done on purpose. They will be set following consultation with the Oireachtas joint committee and will deal with the terms of reference, the categories of groups of people and organisations that need to be referenced in it and will ensure the expenses of people who are taking part in it are covered and so forth.

It is important that there is a wide range of categories of organisations and people covered by it, including older people, people with disabilities and local authorities, for instance, and all the other categories that have already been spoken about. I will take on board the suggestions I have heard here today on setting out the regulations before sending them to the Oireachtas joint committee.

I will not pick individuals for this body. I will pick a chair, but outside of that, the CER will run the administrative process. I will define the categories of the type of people and organisations to be involved. However, the process will be run through the CER and the people will then be chosen. I will take guidance from the Oireachtas joint committee on the regulations and on how many people should be on the forum. The legislation provides that it will be between 12 and 60. It might vary over time. Sometimes more people might be needed and other times fewer people. That is a matter of detail that can be gone into later. I wish to state quite categorically, because it was stressed here, and I had to laugh at it, that there will be no political decision making as regards categories of people who will be on this forum. It is outrageous to say there will be. This forum will be for the betterment of Irish Water. It is imperative that it works to those conditions. I know political points have to be struck but that was over the top.

It will be a matter for the CER to deal with the issue of any advice that the forum might need. The CER can provide expertise or technical advice. The CER will manage customer relations and ensure that Irish Water observes and adheres to a customer charter. It is imperative that this works. The CER will take on board the findings and what is coming up for discussion on Irish Water at all times. That is where the teeth will kick in, because the CER will be co-ordinating this and running this. It will certainly take on board the various different issues, concerns or problems that anyone on the forum speaks about. That is important.

The forum will provide feedback on the prioritisation of what Irish Water needs to be doing and where it needs to be concentrating some of its efforts. It will highlight issues on the capital programme or concerns that may be raised by the public on various different issues or aspects that need clarification, such as geographical coverage and so forth. All of those sorts of issues will be dealt with as part of the forum and that is important. Some Senators have made some useful suggestions on categories of people who should be on the forum. I will take these on board. We should also remember that there needs to be a category - or categories possibly - of commercial users on the forum encompassing very important sectors in our society, including agriculture and tourism, for example.

I was born on the shore of Lough Derg. I was born from here to the gates away from Lough Derg.

Not many people associate Tipperary with the River Shannon or Lough Derg but I always do, and we must remember those engaged in leisure pursuits and other matters. One might not consider such people at first but they constitute a very important sector and should be represented on the forum.

This area has been criticised in these debates but it was deliberately set out in the legislation in this manner. I will consider people's opinions, reflect them in the regulations and send them to the joint Oireachtas committee in draft form. When the joint Oireachtas committee has had a chance to study the draft and consult me I will then set out the regulations and appoint a chairperson. This will allow the CER to operate based on the categories we need, depending on regulations and the volume of people. The manner of the running of the forum was never intended to be detailed or prescriptive in legislation.