Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am delighted that this motion was tabled for discussion. I compliment my colleagues on tabling it because I believe this debate needs focus. There is not a day in the Seanad where some issue does not arise which is relevant to an electoral commission but because of the nature of debate, we just move on to a new subject. I agree with the Minister that an electoral commission should deal with all relevant issues. There is much we can learn from other countries. We are one of the few remaining countries - one out of 32 which were examined - where the Government directs the elections. The independent nature of the democratic system is especially important and it must be cherished, acknowledged and activated.

One could go through a whole list of items that are relevant, as other speakers and the Minister himself have done. Taking the issue of the electoral registers, when one receives copies of the electoral register from the local authorities, one realises that the methodology used to build those registers has not been examined for a long number of years. It is particularly important that the system is seen to be fair, independent and above question. I am not referring to any specific issue with electoral registers but I am aware of many complaints about them.

The methodology for voting is also important. We made an attempt to use electronic voting in the past and it is interesting to note that the issues which jettisoned that system were not major. In fact, when the system was first tested, it seemed to have worked pretty well. The arguments put forward for retaining the current system included tradition and the role of the tally. That is fair enough but there are more intrinsically important issues involved. There was talk about the excitement created at the count centres and about the result hitting a candidate between the eyes, as we saw on television during the experiment. All of these issues can be considered, but I would still maintain that the central tenet must be the democratic system itself and how fair and successful it is.

The constituency boundary issue is also hugely important, although it has already been debated and settled for now. The Minister referred to Tipperary which is the one case where one has a divided county, north and south. Really and truly, though, they are as different as chalk and cheese. It is only at hurling time that Tipperary is one county. I am not saying that is wrong or right but sometimes one will find that a county is almost disenfranchised because of the breaking of boundaries. Perhaps the jury is still out on that or perhaps it has been settled for all time but I would like to see it independently examined by an electoral commission.

It is not a good idea to delay this for too long. We must get it right - of that there can be no question. There is no point in just jumping at it, as it were, but as I understand it, the electoral commission does not just deliver a report. It continues to work as a watchdog, monitoring and overseeing our system. In the context of international best practice, we are way behind.

Out of the 156 countries examined, we are one of 32 which do not have an independent system of that kind. The reason I welcome this debate, and I know it is short one and we need to focus specifically on the motion, is that in preparation for the establishment of an independent electoral commission, I would like if the debate on it could be dealt with in sections and that if we had a shopping list of 20 items to be considered, that the Seanad could be used to have a detailed debate on those. Preparatory work needs to be done for that, given that we are different type of public representative because of the methodology used to elect us. We are talking here about the constituencies for Dáil Éireann. I am not suggesting that it should not also consider Seanad elections but it places the Senators in a particularly credible position to have that debate. My experience of these types of debates is that they are very seldom politically partisan. I am not saying that everybody is high-principled and that they want what is best for the country but in the main there are people on the ground who know the strengths and the weaknesses of the system. Those weaknesses have been discussed over and over again.
Much of our system of counting of votes is based on tradition but the main issue is whether we can genuinely say it is fair. There have been many hiccups in counting votes. We need only recall the many recounts there have been generally due to there being a small margin of votes between two candidates, but when a recount took place it was amazing how the figures changed not only once but often twice and I know in two constituencies where it happened three times. There may have been a small margin of error involved but nevertheless it was the difference between a person representing and not representing a constituency. I doubt if that aspect has been discussed.
Certainly we have had no conclusions about that and that is where an electoral commission would come in. The Government promised such a body would be established within a certain period. I am not here to question why it has been done and I do not believe any of us want to score political points on an issue of this kind. If an electoral commission comes into existence, that practice will continue well into the future. If we talk about a democratic revolution and whatever that may mean, it is because people want a democratic revolution. I do not think they have a shopping list in that respect. Sometimes individuals have an issue in this respect and others may have two issues but the only way we can bring all the issues together and focus on them and give people the feeling they had ownership over their own democracy is if there is a methodology and modus operandifor putting forward issues in a reasoned and balanced way, and currently there is not. Many citizens have question marks over our system. We often hear complaints made in discussions and many of them are groundless but, regardless or whether they are groundless, the mere fact that there is no way to put them to bed is not good for democracy.
I hope this is only the start of a debate on this issue and that there will be other opportunities to debate it. If there are, I would like it to be broken down into sections and that two or three sections could be debated in one sitting. I compliment the Senators who tabled the motion because they are genuinely interested and concerned about our system. Life, society and everything have changed in the past 15 or 20 years. We need to have a priority for ensuring that we harvest people's ideas and complaints through an electoral commission that has been promised and which everybody wants to see established. That is what would satisfy all the citizens and not only those in public life.