Averil Power (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House. She is right on the necessity for this legislation because crime is so international. Nowadays it is easy to launder money internationally due to complex payment systems and because we have become more borderless as a Continent. The latter is a good thing for people who want to move around Europe and internationally without experiencing visa restrictions, border controls and such like. However, criminals find it easier to exploit such openness which means there is an increasing need for the type of co-operation outlined, particularly across the EU. Unfortunately, Ireland has been a little bit slow in terms of opting into justice measures at EU level. I hope the Minister will be more proactive in this regard. We cannot tackle organised crime on a national level because it can only be effectively done at a European level and through much greater global co-operation as well. It can only truly be tackled if the Garda and our other agencies, such as the courts, have enough resources to implement this legislation and thus provide the best possible detection of crime and co-operation with organisations at a European level.
Recently we had a very good example of excellent cross-border co-operation. I refer to the seizure of a yacht in Irish waters beside Cork that was carrying €80 million worth of cocaine. From an Irish point of view it was an excellent operation. The Naval Service boarded the boat and reeled it in and the Air Corps provided air cover. It was a big international operation as it was based on intelligence from English and French services. It was also the result of European co-operation because it utilised the EU Maritime Analysis and Operation Centre in Lisbon. It was great to see different countries co-operating and working to ensure that any piece of information and intelligence anywhere about cross-border crime is shared. It was also great that we pooled our resources and manpower to make sure that criminals cannot use Irish waters to access Europe. It was good to see we have the systems in place to catch them.
For every ship that is caught I worry how many have made it through. Drugs are an incredibly lucrative business. Criminals probably factor into their calculations that a certain number of their shipments will be seized. They plan to still make money on the nine or ten shipments that get through and land their cargo.
I am concerned about the limited resources that the Irish Naval Service has to police Irish waters, particularly as Ireland is a strategic entry point into the European Union. I ask the Minister to do everything that she can to increase its resources. It is essential when talking about the fight against drugs that we say it is a fight against international drug barons and, therefore, must have procedures in place to tackle them.
While I outlined a good example of international co-operation, the system is clearly lacking in terms of white collar crime. Earlier this year two former Anglo Irish executives were found guilty in the Irish courts for the part they played in transactions that ultimately led to collapsing the Anglo Irish Bank. We all know the disastrous effects that has had on the Irish economy. Mr. David Drumm has been described by the judge in that case as the author of the illegal loan scheme but he has never been questioned by the Garda because he fled to the US after the bank collapsed and put himself beyond reach. I understand that the information that led to the conviction of the other two individuals came about through their questioning; it was information that they gave up when they were being questioned by the Garda. Mr. Drumm was the CEO of the bank. Those individuals referred to him as being their boss and claimed they were just following his orders. He has never been questioned. While Irish people are paying the price for the collapse of the Anglo Irish Bank he is living it up in Boston. Whatever about hiding in a Brazilian jungle or living in a lawless country where one does not expect to be able to co-operate with the authorities and get somebody brought back, many people are flabbergasted that he is living it up in Boston and has been able to put himself beyond the reach of the Irish authorities in that way.
I know I must be careful about what I say. I do not want to make any remarks in this House that might jeopardise any future proceedings. I refer to the remark made by the judge that Mr. Drumm was the author of the scheme referred to. Those are not my words. They are the words of a High Court judge who said that Mr. Drumm was the author of the illegal loans scheme. At the very least, Mr. Drumm needs to be questioned about the matter. He should have volunteered for questioning because it is the decent thing to do. If he feels he has a case to put forward to prove his innocence then he should have volunteered for questioning. That has not happened.
This week there have been reports published in the Irish Independentthat perhaps the DPP is getting closer to finally getting Mr. Drumm extradited from the US. It beggars belief that five years have elapsed and we still have not been able to get him extradited to this jurisdiction or even have him returned to answer questions. This situation shows there is something desperately wrong with the procedures we have in place for co-operating with the US. That country is one of Ireland's main trading and diplomatic partners in the world yet we have not been able to have David Drumm returned to this country even for questioning.
I understand that there was talk around the time of the Anglo Irish Bank trial that the offence with which the two executives were found guilty of - the illegal loan scheme - is not illegal, in US legislation in that it is not illegal to sell loans to buy a share in one's own company, as is the case here. There are difficulties in making sure, if somebody is being brought back from another country, that the offence is an offence in both jurisdictions. We need to look at putting systems in place to ensure that people can be brought back for questioning. White collar crime is notoriously complex. That is the reason, in view of all the banking and financial scandals, that we brought in new legislation in this country. We have made it an offence not to provide information, it is an offence not to hand up documents and people can be forced to be subjected to questioning. However, all of that legislation can be avoided by somebody simply taking a one-way flight to Boston, New York or wherever. That shows there is a huge gap in our detection system. The likes of David Drumm are laughing at us because he cannot even be questioned and that all it takes is a one-way flight to put oneself beyond the reach of Irish authorities.

Will the Minister look at that issue? We should be able to co-operate with the US on this and we should use our diplomatic relationship with it in this regard. There would be absolute outrage in the United States if the likes of Bernie Madoff, or anybody else it has held to account, was able to escape justice or even questioning by leaving its jurisdiction. It would not stand for it, nor should we. I urge the Minster to put in place effective mechanisms to ensure we are not waiting around for five years to see if somebody can be brought back. We need to work with the US and our other partners on this issue to ensure that nobody, no matter how wealthy or how influential, or no matter who his or her friends are, can put himself or herself beyond the jurisdiction of the Irish justice system.