Ivana Bacik (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House and express my support for the legislation in keeping with others. We have all noted that its purpose is to transpose into Irish law a Council framework decision from 2008 which amends the 2002 Council framework decision on combating terrorism. I note that the decision must be transposed by 1 December so we are not out of time on it, although I note Senator Ó Clochartaigh's words about delay. However, this is often a feature of transposing directives and we are better off doing it more carefully.

The debate so far has focused on the issue of international terrorism. The Minister pointed out that this is a time when international terrorism is, unfortunately, very much to the fore. However, we should all be mindful in debating this that we still have a great deal of issues on our own island. I noted that the last debate we had in this House on similar legislation was in June 2014 on the renewal of the provisions of the Offences against the State Act. At that point, I noted that there were 30 terrorist-related attacks in Northern Ireland in 2013 and that even by June of this year, five were recorded. I know that there have more since. One must bear that in mind as well. While the focus is currently on the phenomenon of international terrorism, particularly on recruitment in Europe for international terrorism, we should be alive to the threat of terrorism here as well.

However, the particular threat posed by organisations like ISIS or the so-called Islamic State is extremely serious. There is no doubt about this. Anyone who is watching the current attack on Kobane and the Kurdish fighters' resistance there, and who has been aware of the barbaric treatment of civilians and the persecution of people of other religions and women by this organisation, can see that this is a particularly heinous threat that is spilling over the Turkish border from Syria and also in Iraq. There are real questions to be asked about how this organisation has spread so quickly and has made so many military gains so quickly. There are huge questions about who is funding it and supplying it with the heavy artillery we are seeing. We see how the Kurdish fighters are hopelessly under-equipped by comparison with ISIS.

There is also the issue of recruits from Europe. There are a good many reports about recruits from European countries going to fight with ISIS in their thousands. I am glad that, as the Minister pointed out, the figure of 30 from Ireland is inappropriate and has been inaccurately reported. The Minister has pointed out that it would not be appropriate to say that 30 Irish citizens are aligned with ISIS or other groups. We should be conscious that many people travel to Syria or Iraq because they have family there. They may wish to help or engage in humanitarian efforts there so I think people are jumping to certain conclusions. It is important that we make that point.

I am also glad that the Minister has acknowledged that the problem of international terrorism and foreign fighters being recruited from European countries cannot be solved through security-related measures alone and that this legislation introducing as it does three new offences is clearly not the main strand of preventing the recruitment of foreign fighters for terrorist activities abroad. Certainly proactive engagement with communities is essential. I know this has been recognised in the UK as well and is seen as the best way to counter the threat of recruitment and radicalisation of different communities. The Minister has rightly pointed out the work of the Garda racial, intercultural and diversity office. It is important that this work be supported.

The three offences referred to by the Minister - those of public provocation to commit a terrorist offence, recruitment for terrorism and training for terrorism - really build on existing legislation from the 2005 Act. The Minister has given very clear interpretations of those. The definitions are derived largely from the EU legislation. The definition of terrorist-linked activity is very broad. I am glad that it is confined to acts that would constitute an offence in the State. I think this is important. It is like the provision around the European arrest warrant or extradition. There would be an existing criminalisation.

I have often been critical in this House where I thought legislation to deal with terrorism went too far on a procedural basis to change the normal criminal justice procedures and, for example, to provide for enhanced powers for the Special Criminal Court. I know this legislation does not do that. It is creating three substantive new offences so it is not of that nature. I have always welcomed the opportunity to review the provisions of the Offences against the State Act. It has been very useful to us over the years to look at how many times different provisions have been used. We all hope very much that the three new offences here will not be used and that we will not need to use them but certainly it might be useful in a year's time to have some report laid before the Houses as to the number of times they have been used. It would be useful if we could find out whether people had even been arrested under them. That is part of the parliamentary scrutiny of provisions like this that are terrorist-related. I know it has been a really important exercise with the Offences against the State legislation.