Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I understand the amendments have been ruled out of order. The social assistance payments are means tested and are payable on the basis of income need. The situation between somebody who is ordinarily resident and domiciled in the State is slightly different from the person who may be in the State for a period of time - I think it is important to keep that distinction - but who may qualify for social welfare payments under the HRC and his or her spouse qualifies for a qualified adult payment.

In general a person who is getting the principal payment but who is detained in prison or legal custody is disqualified from payment throughout the period of detention. This disqualification applies to claimants and recipients as well as to qualified adults of the claimant or the recipient because the State is paying to maintain the person while he or she is in prison.

Since I became Minister we get the PPS number of anyone who is detained lawfully in custody and we would not continue to pay him or her a social welfare payment because the State is covering his or her maintenance while he or she is in prison. The disqualification is informed by the principle that where a person is in prison or otherwise being detained, his or her needs are being met by the agency of the State responsible for his or her imprisonment or detention. Deciding officers have the scope to adjudicate on claims for social assistance payments, having due regard to the need for adequate scheme controls while at the same time recognising the reality of people's lives.

There is a general disqualification for receipt of social assistance payments. We are referring to social assistance payments to a person who is going out of the State in the long term and not just for a week or two. Where the claimant or recipient is resident outside the State, the payment is allowed for short periods to facilitate the person to visit a sick relative, for family emergencies including attending a funeral, attending to a relative who has fallen ill or accompanying a family member who requires treatment abroad. Social welfare offices are well used to dealing with those typical examples. There is no change in any of the arrangements.

These arrangements will also apply following the extension of this disqualification to the qualified adult of a claimant or recipient, where the qualified adult is resident outside the State for similar reasons. The current practice extends to the qualified adult.

If, however, a person is abroad for any extended period of time in order to care for a sick or disabled relative, that person may qualify for income support from that other state and it would not be appropriate in these circumstances to continue income support under the Irish social welfare system.

Let us suppose somebody immigrated into Ireland and the person's spouse or partner has been working here and is a qualified adult. They then return home to their country of origin, perhaps to care for somebody, and stay there for an extended period, not the short period we have described. It is hard to justify that we would continue to pay that person when the person's home country, which would have been their original domicile and where perhaps they now intend to stay, should be paying the qualified adult increase to them, or, indeed, paying for the principal person.

The understanding on which social welfare assistance payments are made is that the person is resident in the State and stays in the State. If they leave the State to pursue other things in other countries, save for the kind of family medical situations and brief visits I have described, they are then in another country and it is hard to understand why we should be paying them social welfare. I do not know if that is a reasonable explanation.