Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I ask the Senator to bear with me. They can launch legal action, as they did during the time of the previous Government in 1999. This goes back to then. The payment services provided by An Post to social welfare clients are similar to the payments services delivered by banks and, nowadays, other operators using mobile phones and the Internet. In relation to social welfare clients, the services are being delivered to the Department. Many other customers of the Department who have bank accounts choose to have their payments from the Department, including child benefit and retirement pensions, paid into those accounts directly.

That is something that has been ongoing in Ireland not just in respect of social welfare services but also financial transactions in general. The services provided by An Post are delivered as part of a commercial arrangement, with a market price being paid. Therefore, any activity that consists of the offering of goods or services in a given market is deemed to be economic within the meaning of EU competition rules. The Senator has, understandably, concentrated on the social impact and significance of sub-post offices. I accept this and I am a very strong supporter of them, but it is also an economic activity; therefore, under EU competition rules, it is open to somebody else to compete.

The Senator asked what were the conditions of the contract. I will read some of the conditions. The contract was awarded on 2 January 2014. An Post is required to provide and maintain a network for the term of the agreement ensuring at a minimum outlets are available within 3 km of 95% of clients in an urban area and 15 km in a rural area. This means that it must have a very wide network of branches available to service clients. It has been required to consult the Minister in advance of introducing any significant change in the number, nature and distribution of offices. Therefore, it could not arbitrarily decide that it was going to go out of business in some region or a significant section of the country. It is required to ensure services are designed such that they can be accessed by all clients, including those with particular language, sight, hearing, access or literacy requirements; those who require a nominated person to collect a payment on his or her behalf; other vulnerable clients; and those with an atypical lifestyle. As the Senator is aware, the post office service provides services for all comers and all types of people. An Post must ensure payments will be disbursed in accessible, safe and secure environments. Outlets must be clean and accessible, meet health and safety standards and facilitate access for people with disabilities. The payment services shall be provided by An Post for a minimum of five and a half days each week during normal business hours. Welfare payments shall be issued in cash in full to the authorised client or his or her approved nominee as provided for under the contract. No deductions can be made from cash payments other than those provided for under statute or in accordance with the provisions of the contract. As the Senator is aware from previous legislation, I have enhanced the legislation dealing with household benefit payments via An Post. They have become a significant additional stream of income for it and sub-post offices from the Department of Social Protection as a result of the legislation passed. An Post must confirm the identity of clients or their authorised agents before cash payments are made. One of the things I have done is insist on all new jobseekers under 62 years collecting their cash in person from the post office. As we roll out the identity card - presumably, post offices will also invest in the technology - they can verify their identity to the standard of a biometric photograph in the same way as such a photograph is used when people are travelling through airports. It was because An Post could provide these services at an agreed contract price that it won the award. It is a very valuable contract for it.

The essential feature in respect of wider EU legal issues is that it is possible for other potential providers to contest for the contract, as they did in 1999 and 2005. I would like to see An Post develop to the point where it would be in a position to provide basic bank account services. As I said on the last occasion, it provides savings services, but it does not provide bank current account services. It would certainly be welcome if it teamed up with another agency such as a bank to provide such services for clients. Given the trend towards automatic electronic banking, it would certainly assist it significantly in securing its future if it were able to provide the kinds of banking service provided by other outlets. The same is probably true of credit unions throughout the country which also provide an important localised service on a local basis.