Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State's speech is quite balanced except for the last paragraph where the Government and the Civil Service need to get with the programme. The Minister of State said, "While the Government will not be proceeding with this Bill". With all due respect to the Government, it is a matter for the Seanad and Senator Feargal Quinn as to whether the Bill is proceeded with. The Senator proceeded with Bills in the past that did not have Government approval or support. Senators must assert themselves and let the Government know their views even though we are delighted that the Minister of State is here. I am delighted with his balanced speech and agree with many of its aspects. Proceeding with the Bill, however, is a matter for the Seanad and my party supports the Bill. When Senator Quinn brings forward legislation, he does so in a genuine way to address specific problems. His legislation has a great record of success that I think has not been equalled by any Member. It is very hard as a Private Member to get a Bill through this House and the Dáil, but he has done so.

I am glad the Minister of State has said he will look at this Bill in the context of the Ethics in Public Office Act. Having said all that and having expressed our support for the sentiments and content of the Bill that Senator Quinn has put forward, I wish to raise some related issues that could benefit from being included in such legislation. The first relates to the appointment to State boards, which is the nub of this issue. I believe that if the system of appointments to State boards was completely open and transparent, and perhaps based on merit and public application, the public would not have as much of a problem with the payment of an allowance.

As has rightly been explained by Senators Quinn and Barrett, there is public odium and disquiet about the payment of an allowance due to the manner of appointment and the fact that these boards are seen as plum jobs for favourite supporters. That is the problem. If there were an open competition and people could apply for these jobs, I am not sure there would be much disagreement about paying members for their role.

Senator Quinn is right that there are many people who would be more than happy to carry out the role for nothing. The problem lies with the transparency of appointments to boards. I am not going to blame this Government for that but it has continued a tradition that has gone on since the foundation of the State. Some Ministers have made changes and I know Eamon Ryan, who was a member of the previous Government, began to make changes. Some appointments must, under statute, go through the relevant Oireachtas committee, which is a positive move. Under the previous Government, the position of member of the RTE authority was advertised, which is also a positive move. Transparency about appointments is the nub of the problem and is directly related to the issue raised by Senator Quinn, but I believe it to be a more serious problem.

I have one other concern that I discussed with Senator Quinn before this debate and it concerns the position of worker directors. Section 3 of Senator Quinn's Bill talks about transparency arrangements for board members being employed or engaged. I would not like to increase the burden on worker directors because they play a particularly important role. I know from reading the guidelines that they get paid the same as other board members, but that is not the case in all instances. Many people employed by the State do not get a payment for being a director, but that situation does not apply to worker directors for legal reasons. I would not like to put too much of a burden on worker directors because they play a very important role in State bodies, a role that should be recognised. I am sure that worker directors would have no problem with transparency and all the rest. It is my impression that they are not on a gravy train and work in the interest of the companies of which they are directors. That is their first duty but they are also there to represent their fellow workers. It is important to remember the good work that they do.

My party will support the Bill. I do not know whether Senator Quinn will put it to a vote. I am glad the Minister of State has indicated that the Bill will be looked at in terms of the ethics legislation that the Government is putting forward. However, the Minister has rejected the central premise of the Bill that board members are not paid fees. I hope the Bill has opened a wider debate on the issue. I would like to widen the debate a bit further in terms of the appointment of board members and how one gets on a board, but that may be a matter for another day.

I commend Senator Quinn on his outstanding record of legislation and legislative production in this House. Regardless of whether the Bill is accepted by the Government, all of it or many parts of it will probably find their way into Government legislation. The sentiments the Senator has expressed may well become the meon an phobail or common opinion and general consensus in regard to this issue. That is what may happen as a result of him putting forward the Bill. I thank him for doing so and we will support it if he does put it to a vote.