Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State to the House for a less adversarial debate than we are used to. My group agrees with the motion and will support it. However, I question the need for an amendment at all but appreciate what Senator Conway has said. The motion reminds me of the thing that I hated the most about being in government. I refer to motions being dealt with in a self-congratulatory tone and approved by Cabinet as a way of saying how good a job we were doing. Instead of doing something, as proposed by the Independent Senators, we propose that the motion might be considered or reviewed.

Sadly, Ireland is a nation of racists due to inaction in the past. While the 1989 Act was somewhat appropriate for its day it is outdated now and falls well short of a modern society, particularly one as cosmopolitan as Ireland has become and demands.

I take no pleasure from saying we are a nation of racists. I say that because there are not many of us who can honestly say that we have availed of the opportunity for our child, brother or ourselves, to sit beside a Traveller at school, had a sister or daughter bring a Muslim boyfriend home or had friends bring their gay friends home, for example. These are all things that, traditionally in Ireland, are frowned upon yet we like to come in here and pontificate about how bad racism is and we all aspire not to have a racist society. We all support campaigns like the GAA's initiatives called "Respect" and "Show racism the red card", which FIFA and UEFA have also done throughout the world. They are noble causes.

Have we made any real progress combatting racism on the ground? I do not think that we have because I have not seen a great level of integration. Every town has different ethnic groups who stick predominantly together. We do not invite them into our communities and into our day-to-day lives and, equally, they are not very becoming in welcoming us into their communities. I do not mean that they are racist. I mean we have segregation circumstantially, perhaps not by design, but that is what is happening.

On a personal level, I am not sure we will ever bridge the gap until we break down barriers and integrate. That will not happen until, for example, the Filipino community, who famously get together on O'Connell Street on Sundays, do not meet there anymore and, instead, go to St. Stephen's Green to mix with a bunch of Irish people, attend football matches in Croke Park or whatever. We all aspire to and like the idea of that taking place. What are we prepared to do to achieve that aim, in practice? That is where all Irish people are guilty of falling short. We can have as many Acts of the Oireachtas and initiatives as we like but in terms of practice, on the ground, who will invite Travellers into their home, or invite the Muslim community into their church? Who will invite various other ethnic groups to share in their everyday life? We will always have racism in a way that we do not want and in a way that we will not accept until such time as we conquer ways to integrate and share our everyday lives together.

I remember one very good thing that happened on radio. I am sure that the Senator will be here later. I do not mean to mention her while she is not in the House but I will do so in a positive manner. I refer to Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell and her work as a broadcaster. I remember when she worked with the "Pat Kenny Show" she spent a week with a Nigerian family in Dundalk, I think. I am sure she will correct the record if I am wrong. I found her radio report hugely informative for me as an individual and citizen of Ireland because I did not know about the day-to-day lives of Nigerian people who came to live in Ireland. I learned about the struggles they had to put up with and their struggle to put their children through school and college.

The understanding that we have as individuals is closed. It was Orwell who said that all people are equal, but some are more equal than others. We are all happy with that kind of imperfection in life and that is what we must strive to overcome. I am not sure how we will do so or what initiative will work but it will be by practising rather than by Acts of the Oireachtas.

In terms of getting over some of the issues, perception is a big issue. For example, every town in Ireland probably has a number of people with refugee status. There is a perception that such people all get social welfare payments and people say "I am entitled to invalidity pension because everybody is getting it who has come in as a refugee", or "Everybody is getting jobseeker's allowance so why can't I get family income supplement when I know that a family from such a country who are staying in Globe House in Sligo, for example, are getting it?". That attitude breeds the kind of hatred that we all want to get away from.

Equally, when my colleague, Senator Paschal Mooney, commented on an issue he was very wrongly picked up and very wrongly scrutinised by the media because he made reference to the fact that quite a large number of taxi drivers who operate after hours are Nigerian. That is fine but again the perception needs to be explained to people. Fair play to them for being prepared to do the work. They work hard and provide a service so they are entitled to do the work. The Senator is the most fair-minded person I know and is not remotely racist. We must begin to explain these challenges to society. We must say "Here is why there are so many taxi drivers who happen to be Nigerian, and here is why there are so many refugees on social welfare payments or whatever." We must explain to the rest of society what is actually going on.

I do not believe that anybody should be allowed into Ireland. I do not mean allowed in Ireland. I mean nobody should be left in Ireland and kept here in limbo while awaiting refugee status or whatever and not be allowed to work. That situation breeds further resentment. The vast majority of these people would like to contribute in terms of taxation and so on. In addition, their working would help combat racism. How many of us work side by side with foreign nationals? Not many; very few, in fact. Allowing them to work can lead to integration.

I support the motion and the spirit in which it was put forward. However, I do not support the amendment because it is classic Government of the day stuff. Fianna Fáil was no better when it was in government in that sense. I regret the fact that the Government side cannot just accept the motion tabled by the Independent Senators as a target for all of us to work towards. We have a lot of challenges in this area. I am not sure we are even close to the kind of integration and acceptance that we need to be. In that regard, we need to be guided by the Immigrant Council of Ireland and I welcome Mr. Jerry O'Connor and his colleagues from the council who are present. I also welcome the delegation from Pavee Point and the other groups that Senator Mac Conghail mentioned. They are the people at the coalface who know the situation. Clearly, there is work to be done by both sides in pulling it all together. I believe that it can be achieved but only if we strive for a level of integration that does not remotely exist at the moment in terms of sharing the experience, mutually, of our everyday lives. The solution to racism lies in integration. Please God, we will come up with some solutions through conducting negotiations, with the body that I have mentioned, in order to meet that challenge.