Feargal Quinn (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House. I am delighted he is here because I know he is a good listener. He has had the opportunity to listen to some very pertinent points, particularly by Senator Mary Ann O'Brien, whose experience is very useful.

I have been a Member for 21 years. When I first came in here, I said to the people in charge of salaries that I would like to consider donating my salary to charity. However, I was advised this was only possible after the State had got its share. There is a lesson here if the State always lets people know it wants its share and is not willing to let individuals take all of what they are due because it wants to do that itself. About ten years ago there was a bit of a fuss because some very high-income people were paying very low tax rates. The State understandably decided to prevent people from using those tax-efficient measures to reduce their tax and to require them to pay a minimum tax. However, the State included philanthropy in that list of tax-free systems. In other words the State prevented high-income people giving their money away, as it wanted its share first.

I believe the State has a duty to do something about that itself. Everybody in this debate is pointing out how generous Irish people are which, of course, we are on a personal basis. The United States also has a very high number of donations, but people are not required to pay tax on philanthropic donations. It is up to the State to pay its share on what we are going to do here. Clearly there are some scandals and we want to ensure we overcome them. However, on the other hand we need to ensure the amount we give to charities is also encouraging people to do that.

I welcome the debate. Further to the Irish Water scandal and the secrecy regarding charities and semi-State bodies, I believe there is a need for much more transparency. For several years, I have proposed that we have a public website based on the United States model allowing the public to see at a glance where every cent of taxpayers' money is being spent, whether on roads, charities, salaries of public servants, contracts or debt.

Probably for obvious reasons, politicians do not want this type of transparency. I believe we will have no choice but to move in this direction as the public are unsatisfied with the status quo.

I recognise that the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, has established the Ireland Stat website but that is not the type of website I have been calling for. It merely shows some well-known figures on exports, for example. What we need to show is exactly where every cent is spent, including spending on charities and the salaries of those employed by charities.

We have been raising the issue of the need for a charities regulator for a long time in the Seanad and I am pleased to note that the Minister is able to move on that now. A charity register is a good idea as well and I have before me a description from the United Kingdom Charity Commission's website of its system. It refers to how the website shows key facts about the work and finances of every charity such that a viewer can see at a glance whether a given charity is up to date with its report and accounts. This information is good for the customer and I believe we need a similar system here. Transparency in charities can help to increase much-needed revenue, which has been falling since the crisis, as we have heard today. Given that the State gives so much money to charities, there should be far more impetus on the side of Departments to audit the accounts of charities and to examine charities from a business-oriented perspective to analyse their efficiencies in reaching their targets. We need to know the impact of a charity's work as well and we should examine the work of charities more like the way in which a business in the private sector would measure itself. At the same time, the private and not-for-profit sectors can play a role in making charities more transparent and efficient. The situation in other countries is worth noting as well.

Some years ago, the Minister for Health told me of the problem of the number of quangos which were spending Government money and their own money. One particular case involved three charities in one town doing the same work. Each had their own public relations department and each came to the Minister to make an appointment. That simply does not seem to make sense. I know the Department and the Minister did their best to overcome that.

In the United States, there are websites such as that run by the non-profit organisation Charity Navigator, which I came across some time back. It evaluates charities in the United States, rating them on a 0 to 4 basis. Could we operate a similar system here? It provides an in-depth analysis to the customer or the person who is donating. This type of charity rating is worthwhile.

In the case of the salaries of the chief executives of charities, which has been part of the discussion, there is a good deal of murkiness. In particular, a report emerged last year stating that four charities, which shared millions of euro in State funding each year, had refused to reveal how much their chief executives were paid. That has been touched on in the House today. While more transparency will, I hope, mean more donations in the long term, I believe some charities should get away from the murkiness that surrounds them as it has probably given them many problems.

I wish to address the matter of business and charities. As someone who was in business for many years, I know that working with charities can bring benefits to businesses which are not always recognised. Our company decided only to sell bread that was four hours old. This meant we had to give away a good deal of bread every night and charities came along to collect it. This was a real win-win situation. I seldom use the word "accountant" without an adjective, not necessarily a bad adjective, but the accountants could not understand it. Anyway, it was actually rather good for business because it meant the bread was fresh and people drove past other supermarkets to come to ours to get fresh bread. It also meant that charities benefited. There is a major opportunity for businesses to get involved with waste food. We have had some debates in the House on food wastage and we can do a good deal more.

Another point relates to the crowd funding of charities. Crowd funding is a great system in the United States which is now in Ireland as well. I am involved in one group - I am declaring my interest - called Link Finance, in which local people and others make small contributions to a business.

It greatly helps the business and it is a way of being able to help. It does not have to be a charity as such, but it is a wonderful way to encourage businesses to set up with the help of the local people in that area.

I believe we can do a huge amount here. I have raised the following example before, but it is worth highlighting again. In the US, there is an organisation, DonorsChoose, which runs a website that allows people to give to projects in American schools. It would be worthwhile if the Minister's people can look up the website, donorschoose.org. The organisation collects proposals from teachers and makes them available to public schools through its website. I believe it is the kind of thing that can help schools a great deal, because people can see what is being done, whether it is worthwhile making a contribution, and it encourages extra giving.

I am delighted the Minister is here today. It is good of him to attend this Chamber, but he is also a good listener. I hope he gets some benefits from the wide and varied discussions that we are having here today.