Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House. I thank him for being involved and for staying as long as he has to deal with this Bill. I realise it is an important Bill as far as he is concerned. It is the major change in local government since the 1890s. Like Senator Wilson, my point is that the power is moving from the west coast to the east coast. Those of us in County Roscommon have lost seats, from 26 to 18, in three local authority areas. All those councillors were active and effective. They represented their local areas and the communities from where they were elected. Eight of them will be deprived of the opportunity of serving in public life. That is a fact. Boyle Town Council will be removed. The council provided a good service for a town like Boyle, which will now have no local authority or mayoralty. In contrast, it was not so many years ago when a government brought down Dublin Corporation and brought it up into four authorities: Fingal, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown and South Dublin county councils and Dublin City Council. Now, Dublin City Council is back to 63 members, an unwieldy number. The Minister must accept that.

I accept the Minister probably would not have gone with that model but I know the Labour Party was particularly keen to have a larger representation in the areas where is has strength, and for those areas to be extended and to get further power. In fact, that will probably not become a reality when the election takes place in May 2014. The change also affects the election of Senators. The more Senators there are on the east coast, the fewer there will be from the west coast, the midlands, Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal and elsewhere. The numbers have increased in Kildare, Wicklow, Wexford and Dublin city.

Dublin City Council could elect one or two Senators on its own. That is a fact. Many Senators will be at a disadvantage come the next Seanad election which, fortunately, will take place after all. We are all delighted that the electorate has decided that the Seanad was worth retaining. It was certainly an endorsement of the Seanad.

The Minister must have compliant councillors throughout Ireland. In Fianna Fáil's time this Bill would not have got through. Senator Diarmuid Wilson could confirm that for the Minister. There would have been uproar among our councillors the length and breadth of Ireland. They would have prevented the one time Minister, Noel Dempsey, or any other Minister going through with it. We are a democratic party and conscious of the needs of the people and the electorate. I could not envisage a Fianna Fáil Government reducing the number of councillors in counties Leitrim, Roscommon, Longford or Westmeath. All of those councils have been reduced and there has been a reduction in their authority. I served on a local authority from 1974 to 1991 when the dual mandate for Ministers of State was removed. Then I got back in 1999 and I became a Senator and then the dual mandate for Senators was removed. I believe that was a bad decision by a previous government. Senators should have been allowed to continue serving on local authorities because they were directly elected by councillors as well as Deputies and Senators. The main bulk of the electorate of approximately 949 were councillors. It was logical to have a direct conduit from Senators from the local authorities to central government. It was a good way of having a decentralised approach. The management was conscious of the fact that many Senators who were on councils would come to Leinster House and have direct contact with the Minister of the day. They would be able to bring forward the views of the council on issues like water storage and services that were particularly needed.

I served as a member of Roscommon County Council, a Deputy and as a Minister of State at one time. It was demanding but that is not unique. In France, for example, the Mayor of Paris is a Member of Parliament and President of the Council of Europe. They can cope well in those areas. However, that day is gone. My colleague, the late Seán Doherty, was Minister for Justice and a member of Roscommon County Council. I was a Minister of State with responsibility for posts and telegraphs and transport and a member of Roscommon County Council. There were several Senators there.