Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The last evening we were here, we discussed two of these amendments and I understood they had been dealt with and that amendment No. 40 was next. Notwithstanding that, the picture painted here by some of the Senators on the other side of the House is wrong and misleading and does not stand up to scrutiny.

If we accepted the point of view of Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin, we would believe that the country is filled with solicitors writing letters to millions of customers, that people are knocking on customers' doors and customers are being dragged before the courts. That is rubbish. It does not happen with any other utility and certainly will not happen with Irish Water. In regard to people sticking their noses into bank accounts, there is no issue in regard to the powers of Uisce Éireann. It will not have the power to do that and the Revenue will not be assisting it. However, Uisce Éireann will expect Senator Ó Clochartaigh and me to pay our bills. If the Senator can, like me, afford to pay, that is what he should do.

I accept and acknowledge Senator Barrett's knowledge and integrity, but I am disappointed with his comments because he says the consumer is not protected. The reason regulators are in place is to protect consumers. Look, for example, at the CER and the process through which it works. The CER makes it clear from its perspective as regulator that there will be due process in what it is doing. It has already had initial consultation on what will be taken into account and has advised the Government on what it thinks of what Senator Barrett and I have said on the issue as members of the public and will now go through a due, fair, transparent and accountable process.

As a Minister, I am not a member of an Oireachtas committee, but the Senators here are members of committees and have the powers to insist on Irish Water coming before a committee or to invite a regulator to come in or a Minister or Department to clarify these issues. There is nothing to hide in this regard. Nothing is hidden and the whole process will be transparent and accountable. The point I wish to make clear is that there is nothing here that is different. There are no legions of solicitors and lawyers involved at all. I have been a public representative for many years and I deal with people who have financial difficulties all the time. We all do. I know from my experience with energy companies that a Member can, in the presence of a constituent, make a phone call to the utility and articulate the case and ensure that any issues are dealt with.

I must say that any time I have spoken to people in the power companies such as Bord Gáis, they have always listened and they will always do their very best. That has been my experience and I will stand over it. I know the country will stand over it because, notwithstanding the fact that there are exceptions which do not work out, it is wrong to paint these utilities as the monster the Senator is making them out to be. The Senator thinks it is a political point, but I do not think it is. I would much prefer the Senator would go through the detail and the facts. The facts are on how water charges will be approved and how they will be analysed. That is very clear.

The commission will consider the water charges plan submitted by Irish Water. In consideration of the costs of Irish Water, the commission will obtain a high level of detail on Irish Water's costs. It will be subject to detailed analysis by the financial, economic and technical consultants within the commission. This analysis will include an examination of the historic and forecast operation expenditure of the company, the value of the asset base - the network - and the appropriate cost of capital for the investment plans. Only after the public consultation process will the CER then consider all matters raised in that process. At all times, the CER will only allow reasonable and appropriate efficiency costs for the provision of water services by Irish Water. The overriding objective is to ensure that only reasonable and appropriate costs for the provision of water services by Irish Water are charged to customers.

The Bill provides that Irish Water will be required to prepare codes of practice on the very issues the Senator has raised. These codes of practice will cover various matters, including complaints procedures, billing methods, payment of bills, the provision of information to customers. All codes of practice prepared by Irish Water will be subject to the approval of the commission. The commission has the power to direct Irish Water to prepare a code of practice in any area where it is in the interests of the customers of Irish Water. For any code of practice published in accordance with the Bill, the commission has the power to direct Irish Water to comply with any aspect of the code of practice which Irish Water is legally obliged to do with such a direction.

The Water Services Act provides the commission with a role to consult on matters relevant to the regulation of water services. I do not see this world that the Senators are talking about. It does not exist. We are talking about a more efficient, effective model that is transparent and accountable, and the Senators' powers over this, as Members of the Oireachtas, are very strong, notwithstanding anything I might say here. Members should bring those concerned before their committee and put them through the mill, because committees are there so that their members can have satisfaction of the issues that they wish to raise. I absolutely reject what Senators are saying here. We have to get real about this.

The EPA report into water quality in Ireland, published yesterday makes for profound and important reading. It shows how well we are doing in many areas, but it also points out difficulties with water supply, with boiling of water and E. coli contamination in some areas. Notwithstanding all the changes that have occurred, there are further significant improvements to be made. Where is the money going to come from to do that? Who is going to improve the infrastructure? It is not going to fall out of the sky. We will have to raise the money in the different ways that I said the last day, namely, through tariffs on commercial companies, the borrowings that Irish Water will make, the other capital investors they attract and from the charges that they levy.

At any stage in the process, the Minister of the Environment, Community and Local Government has the power to issue a direction to Irish Water. To say that Irish Water has untrammeled power and can run through the bank accounts of the people of this country is rubbish, as it is to say that there will not be understanding of affordability issues and that needs will not be met. When we are talking about affordability, it will not work if we do not take into account the ability of people to pay. It is certain that there will be a free allowance for people. There are also questions about health issues and high users of water for other reasons and on low income. All of those issues will have to be dealt with in a transparent, accountable way. There is nothing hidden here, so I ask the Senator to think again before making the type of comments he is making. The reality is entirely different.