David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State back to the House. He always listens but he is not always able to act even when he agrees with what is said. I have spoken about the water supply for many years. It is one natural resource in which this country an embarras de richesses. We have plenty of the raw supply of water.

I accept completely that we cannot simply take the rainwater out of the sky and use it for domestic purposes. It would not be practical or sanitary and we need to be protected against various microbial infections and pollutants and so on. There is a clear charge on the State to provide plant and insulation for the treatment of water and provision of adequate services and piping and all the rest. I have no problem with water charges. I never opposed them. I believe in paying for what we use. For that reason the idea of the payment per cubic metre of water is appropriate. It depends of course where that is put. I hope it will be put at the lower end.

Can the Minister of State indicate something about the phrase that has been tossed around of a "free" water element? Does he have any idea what the quantification of this is likely to be? Although I agree with the charges, I also agree with my colleagues on this side of the House who said that it will be a great burden for many people because of the accumulation of different taxes. There are now so many. In one report, I read that the average four member family might have to pay up to €500 a year. That could be crippling for people on tiny margins. For that reason I am also very glad that the Minister has decided not to allow Irish Water to cut off supplies. That would be an outrage and a kind of violation of human rights. Why have this mean business of reducing the water? If the Minister is prepared to go to court when people do not pay why not leave it at that? Why reduce the water supply? There is something rather Scrooge like in that. How much will they get? By how much will it be reduced? What will the impact of that be on a family, particularly if there is a sick person in the family or a need for extra water?

It is a pity this legislation has really been sparked by the EU and the IMF agreement. We should have done it years ago, although I am not blaming this Government as it goes back to Government after Government. They simply did not invest and there was a massive lack of investment in water infrastructure. The last really huge water programme was one that is mentioned in Ulysses, the Vartry reservoir in 1904. We have neglected this partly because, I suppose, we see the grey waters pouring out of the skies all the time. I always laughed when they said "Don't water your garden in the summer". The minute I heard that, I used to go out and leave the hose on because I thought that the sooner we have a crisis, the better, and if I can add to that crisis in any way, I will, because that is the only way they will ever face up to the situation.

With regard to metering, I have a number of particular concerns. I have mentioned this before, and the Minister of State nodded and says he is in agreement, but I do not know that anything is happening about it. First, the installation of the metering seems to have been outsourced and commercial companies are doing it. I would like to think they will be given very strict instructions within the Georgian core of Dublin that they must not continue to destroy the antique pavement. This is a heritage from the 18th century yet it is routinely desecrated, and the local authorities used to replace it with concrete in some places. We kicked up hell about this in North Great George's Street and were eventually successful. The local authorities have since been very good about it. I am concerned about the outsourced people because they do not give a tinker's curse about heritage on many occasions, whereas the employees of the corporation certainly did.

The other issue I am concerned about in regard to metering is the need for joined-up thinking. If we look at the helpful explanatory memorandum, the Minister's speech and the context around this, it is perfectly clear that the utilities are all interconnected in one way or another. We have Irish Water, the gas people and the electricity people, and they are all related and interconnected, and are all, more or less, already involved in this project. The point I made to the Minister of State, and I would like to know if he has any comment on this - he did nod, but it might just have been a nervous tic - is why in the name of God can we not put in one universal meter which can be read electronically and remotely for electricity, water and gas. This avoids estimated readings given that, very often, meter readers cannot get into the house. Of course, they will be able to access the water meters from outside but we will still be left with the electricity and the gas. Given they are all inter-related, why not seize this moment? I gather they have already started putting in these meters, but they had not started when I said it first. It seems to be clear logic to do this as it would be much more efficient. In my own case, for example, I was quite pleased to be estimated because they had overestimated me so hugely that it ended up with the gas board owing me €1,000, so even though I have had a boiler breakdown which has been repaired, I am still in credit, which was rather nice to find out. However, I would much prefer to have this accurately done.

Turning to the Minister of State's speech, what about the people in the countryside who have their own independent supply? I presume there is no proposal to meter them. If they have their own well and provide their own water, they are completely excluded from this, which is fine and exactly the way it should be. I wonder should there not be a universal charge for water. Presumably, it will not vary from county to county, which I know happens in terms of commercial development. I believe the Minister of State is indicating there will be one rate, which is good.

They are establishing a new State-owned utility to take responsibility for the water metering and all the rest, "a programme that will reduce leakage and demand, cutting production". How will it do so? Putting in a water meter will not reduce leakage. From lip reading, I see the Minister of State is indicating that it will, so I look forward to the reply which, although I cannot stay to hear it, I will read with great interest. If the Minister of State says it will, I take it that it will. However, I do not see how simply metering will do this. It will perhaps indicate the source of leaks-----