David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

It is worth emphasising that there is nothing selfish or partisan in this proposal. While the amendment tabled by my two colleagues affects their own case, they are not seeking any aggrandisement or financial reward for themselves but addressing the principle that the labourer gets paid for his or her hire. It is daft that a political party or an organisation should be paid for the work done by somebody who has disassociated himself or herself from that organisation or party.

I had forgotten about the precedent to which Senator Byrne referred. It appears that this was merely counsel's advice. I wonder if my colleagues, Senators Bradford and Healy Eames, would consider taking this matter before the courts to obtain a ruling. There are legal implications to this important constitutional point. It is likely that in these circumstances a court would avoid embarrassment for the Minister and two individuals involved and would lay down a principle that would continue and would, I hope, be unlikely to cause any great financial burden on the two Senators in question. This is a matter of considerable constitutional importance and in such cases the court usually waives legal fees. Perhaps the Senators will think along these lines.

As I stated, the proposed amendment sets out an honourable course of action. It is not as if the political parties are destitute of funds. It is revealing to learn how much they receive. The loss of the money intended and specified for the two individuals involved would not bankrupt the Fine Gael Party as it has adequate resources.

In anticipation of an argument that the Minister may feel inclined to repeat, namely, that they were elected as members of Fine Gael, how can we know this? We cannot know what is in the minds of all the people in the electorate. I regularly hear people in my area say they voted for the person rather than the party. They vote for the person they trust to represent them adequately. The argument falls because one can assume that at least a reasonable proportion of the people who voted for Senator Paul Bradford, even though they were merely Members of Parliament and county councillors rather than real people, had a good idea of what they were doing. The Minister's position raises the spectre of the mediaeval system that obtained when I was first elected to this House, whereby Members electing persons to Seanad Éireann were dragooned into their parties' rooms, told where to mark their "X" and stood over while they voted. That was not particularly democratic.