Paul Bradford (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister and the legislation. I listened to the previous speaker, and while I do not disagree with his comments on the former workers at Waterford Crystal, I appreciate this legislation is not the final set of proposals on the broader issue of pensions and pension schemes and I look forward to further progress in this regard. Senator Cullinane mentioned the Minister's views and statements in October 2011 and all of us must have a mature debate on pensions, be they occupational pensions or State pensions, over the coming years. We must consider charting a different course on the concept of pensions, pension entitlement and pension funding.

The majority of people take out a pension to provide security and certainty in their older years. Many situations have changed vis-à-vis the elderly and pensions in recent years. People now wish to work longer and lifestyle and health changes ensure, thankfully, people live longer. We must try to reflect this new lifestyle and life choice in our debate on pensions. The Minister's primary pension responsibility is with regard to the more conventional social welfare pension and this is why it is so important she has fought successfully in Cabinet to maintain a reasonable standard of pension for elderly people. Our baseline of defence and argument should be that every person upon reaching retirement age, be it 66 today or 67 or 68 in years to come, is guaranteed a reasonable State pension. Alongside this reasonable guarantee of a State pension we must try to ensure our elderly, or shall I say our mature citizens because I do not believe people of 67, 68, or 69 consider themselves to be elderly, have certainty about health care, housing and long-term nursing home care if required. This must also become part of the equation.

When I think of the people who through generations invested virtually all of their spare resources in pension schemes, expecting particular bonanzas on reaching retirement age and then finding the returns are so modest, I ask myself how the money could have been spent in an alternative way in homes and on families. This must become part of the argument also. Occupational pensions and private pensions taken out must be protected, but if we can guarantee a standard and certainty of living for our mature and older citizens it would be a very positive beginning. If we can tell the elderly, who are not the 66 or 67 year olds, that if necessary their housing needs will be looked after by the State, their health services are guaranteed, whether one is a medical card patient or holds private health insurance, and if the time comes nursing home or sheltered accommodation needs will be provided, it would remove many of the fears, doubts and concerns which have obliged many people to pour huge resources into pension schemes which have turned out to be very different to what they would have expected.

I know my few words are not particularly appropriate to this legislation but I hope they are appropriate to a broader debate which all of us need to have as a society on behalf of mature and elderly people. We are speaking about people who in some cases seem to be reaching a disappointing conclusion to their pension investments. The Minister is attempting to put in place a balanced solution which will not satisfy everybody and will have pain as well as gain. We must be realistic, and it is as good as the Minister, the Oireachtas and the taxpayer can do under the circumstances. In so far as it goes, I wholeheartedly welcome it and I encourage the Minister to restart what may have been her initiative of 2011. It will not be in the Minister's time, my time or in the time of anybody in the House where this thinking will come to pass and come to really matter, but it will happen in 20, 25, 30 or 40 years and we need to begin thinking and talking a new dialogue on pensions, retirement, certainty and security.

I look forward to Committee Stage of the Bill. I hope the issues of concern raised by my colleagues on all sides of the House can be taken on board. I look forward to hearing the Minister's thinking on other ways of ensuring certainty and security for the growing number of people who live into their 70s, 80s and 90s. This is sometimes seen by the Department and the Department of Health as a problem, but we should see it as something to welcome and embrace although it requires new planning and thinking and a new approach.