Sean Barrett (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am concerned over what the Minister of State has said. On the previous day I was more convinced there would be savings from going to the Circuit Court rather than the High Court. Now the Department does not know and has given the Minister of State a note indicating that it cannot tell. Too much policy making is not based on evidence. If the Circuit Court is not cheaper than the High Court, we should all vote against the amendment. The Department must have some estimates of saving. I am concerned over the lack of expertise in Departments given that they cannot answer a simple question. We are doing it to save money and I am delighted, but I want to know how much. We are being told they could not do certain things or it would be too difficult to find out. If there are savings, I am sure the troika, the Ministers, Deputies Noonan and Howlin, and everybody else in the Cabinet would be delighted to hear them.

I hope the Minister of State takes the other point on board more strongly. I applaud the Minister of State and his colleagues, the Minister, Deputy Bruton, and the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, on being advocates of small and medium-sized enterprises. We repeatedly run into the attitude that people are in favour of small and medium-sized enterprises, but not in their sectors. They will continue to give business to the big four or five, whether it is in accountancy, which we will discuss later in section 6, or in law firms. The Minister for Health protects VHI, which is the biggest company and yet small and medium-sized health insurance companies are not wanted either. In the area of transport, the Minister of State, Deputy Kelly, has indicated that small and medium-sized bus companies are not wanted because he will allocate the subsidy without competitive tendering and give exclusive rights to all the routes to the biggest operator.

This is capture of Departments by vested interests. Even when they venture away from it and indicate they will do something that will cost a bit less, it is clear from the answer the Minister of State gave that the homework has not been done. I ask for that homework to be prepared in time for Report Stage. I should have mentioned the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, who was here the last day and stood in magnificently as we always expect. It must be something about Cork that gives us these Ministers of State to debate these issues. It is disappointing. Is the Department afraid that I will come back later and say that it promised 25% and there is only 22% or does it have no idea what the savings are and refuses to quantify it? The Minister of State should ask the officials to quantify it. We are trying to achieve political reform and get the country out of the mess in which it was in 2008. I object to simple questions from Members of Parliament not being answered.

I hope there are savings and as a Member of Parliament I want to monitor those savings. However, I cannot do it if I get meaningless answers indicating that the Department does not know. Policies that were not properly appraised and analysed got the country into trouble. This is an attempt to correct that situation and we still do not know. Wandering around in the dark on policy is just not good enough these days. I express my surprise that the Department has no idea of the savings for a measure it has proposed. It is unacceptable for a major Department not to be able to answer that question. I am sure the Ministers, Deputies Shatter and Noonan, will also want to know why there is no answer to it.