Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I would like to comment briefly on the issue of legal costs and the troika. I am not an expert in legal matters but it is about time we had a full debate on this situation. Approximately five major firms, primarily based in Dublin, control the commercial law area. Their fees, including to Government and internationally, is €500 per hour. Some of the solicitors in north and west Cork are on the bread line. People tend to forget that currently more than 2,000 young qualified lawyers, some of whom have masters degrees, are unemployed and cannot access the system. Debate on this issue should not be about the person in Bantry, Mallow, Killarney, Athenry or Donegal who is earning a crust in terms of charging a fee of €50 per hour or less but about the monopoly within the Irish legal structure. These firms will not engage with clients unless they have around €10 million or €15 million insurance cover.

During a conversation with a taxi driver on a recent trip from the airport he told me that he was a qualified barrister but was driving a taxi because he could not get work in that area. People think that if a person is a lawyer, solicitor or barrister he or she is automatically in the big league. There is a premier division of lawyers in Ireland. It is a cosy cartel monopolised by five large firms. The Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, know who they are. The debate needs to be about such firms and reducing their fees of €500 per hour. Most solicitors around the country charge approximately €60 per hour. Their situation is akin to that of farmers, the majority of whom, as the Minister of State will be aware, make approximately €9,000 to €12,000 per annum, while the remainder of them make approximately €150,000 per annum.

I would welcome an informed debate on this issue. Perhaps the larger firms are being protected by the Law Society or Bar Counsel. The vast majority of lawyers in this country are on the bread line. I am speaking not about the rogues in the profession who are being weeded out, and rightly so, but about those lawyers around the country who are in serious difficulty, including law students with masters degrees who cannot obtain apprenticeships and so on. I agree with Senator Barrett that legal costs is an issue but it is one applicable to a particular cartel that is monopolising international commercial transactions, including to Government. I acknowledge this was also an issue in relation to previous Governments. I will not name the firms concerned. What I say is the truth, namely, there are five firms in this country that are earning more than 60% of all other legal firms throughout the country.

My colleague, Senator Walsh, has often raised the issue of the colossal fees being charged by lawyers and the need to reduce insurance claims. Insurance claims have fallen since enactment of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board Bill. Having recently attended conventions and political gatherings in Kerry and Tipperary, I know there are many solicitors in Ireland who are barely surviving. The notion that they are all creaming it is not true. If we are to debate this issue then let us be honest and take on the cartel. I propose that we also take on the Law Society and whoever else is protecting that cartel. When it comes to dealing with the various issues that arise in Departments, the same firms are hired by Government. No consideration is given to hiring any of the other approximately 10,000 lawyers in Ireland.

I had not intended to contribute on this section but I felt I had to when I heard Senator Barrett speak about legal fees. Let us have an honest debate about who is charging these fees and making the money. Let us commission an audit in this regard and then tackle the people who are charging €500 per hour rather than the people in Dingle or Connemara who are charging €50 per hour and who are barely surviving. We all know there is a cartel operating in this area. It has been referred to previously. Let us be honest in our debate on this issue. The view often in the media is that all solicitors are robust and earning vast sums. This is not true.