David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I would like to say a few words about the section. I put an amendment down which was not allowed. The idea behind it should be considered by Government. This idea is absolutely transparent. Get rid of all the allowances. One can make any kind of justification one wants. I will not rehearse matters as I have put the historical reasons for these allowances on the record and they do not do politics any great credit. It would be a very good thing to get rid of the whole lot of them. It may not be politically possible at this stage but it is certainly something that should be looked at. We should get the rate for the job.

I would also like an opportunity to put on the record of this House that I have not changed my position on this. Some professor from some university wrote to the newspapers saying that I was more or less dishonest and had backtracked from my commitments to this, that and the other. Another person who is rather more innocent said he was very disappointed that I had withdrawn from the commitment given the Quinn-Zappone Bill. How could I give any commitment to that Bill when I only saw it the day it was introduced in this House, the same as all my colleagues?

I certainly would not have accepted the idea that we reduce our pay by 50%. According to the Minister, the Taoiseach reduced his pay by 40%. Nobody paid a blind bit of attention - not a bit. He might as well not have bothered. I do not want to work for half pay. That is something that is a mark of dishonour. I did not sign up to it. I was never given the opportunity. Nobody in this House except the two people involved were engaged in those discussions. Even they were only brought in to a certain extent because it was produced by an anonymous group of lawyers. I do not accept this idea of halving the pay of Senators. I understand there may be political difficulties here but at the end of the day, I think what Members of Parliament should get is the rate for the job established by an external authoritative source.

What happens to my colleagues who have left parties is a fine. They are fined for leaving the party. I will leave it at that. I would like to sow the seeds of that idea in the Minister's mind. Perhaps when things are more stable, we should look at making everything absolutely transparent. Everything would be out in the open. The Member gets whatever it is - €60,000, €70,000, €40,000 or €100,000 - I do not care what it is. The Member gets a nice round figure and pays everything out of that and all of it is taxable. That is the way to be really transparent.

There is another point I wish to make. There is a difference with regard to Independents. It is very difficult to justify an allowance that is to a large extent a fudge and I know it is a fudge. With regard to Independents, each one of us must prepare material on every single item that comes before the House. We are the constant presence here. We try to be here all the time. In saying that, I am not criticising my colleagues who are members of parties. Very often, they are delegated as spokespersons on specific issues but we have to cover everything. We also produce legislation. If the Minister looks at the amount of legislation that has come from these benches over the past year or two, he will see it is quite astonishing. Dealing with it entails a lot of hard work.

That involves doing one's own research, learning the techniques, trying to get a prototype build together and then trying to get some degree of professional assistance to flesh it out in such a manner that it can be taken seriously in this House. These are responsibilities that do not devolve upon my colleagues, whose contribution I value greatly, but who are members of political parties.

The Minister mentioned some of the people who put forward this business about halving our incomes. I could not help but notice that they were all people who had not been elected but who were nominated so they did not have election expenses to start off with and they are part time. We are dealing with this issue that is so important and there is not a single one of them around. They also had substantial sources of income outside this House. Therefore, I find it difficult to take that argument so terribly seriously since the Minister revealed the sources.

I feel it necessary for me to say that some of us work really hard - members of parties and Independents. It is disheartening when one tries to cover one's job and spend long hours doing so, to be told that half pay would be sufficient. Just as the Taoiseach was not noticed when he cut his pay nearly in half, nobody will notice. I heard people saying we should work for nothing because it is such an honour. This would result in an aristocracy of wealth. This House would become like the old House of Lords which sat where the Bank of Ireland is now located. Only the big people who are able to afford it will be in the House. I am glad to say there are two or three people in this House who were unemployed before they came here. They are not the aristocracy nor the elite.