David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 6:

In page 4, to delete lines 35 to 40, and in page 5, to delete lines 1 to 4.

This involves the deletion of section 2(6), in which it is stated that an allowance paid under this section shall not be used for, or to recoup, election or poll expenses incurred for the purposes of any election or poll held under various Acts, including the Seanad Electoral (University Members) Acts and the Seanad Electoral (Panel Members) Acts. I fundamentally disagree with this. I see no reason not to treat this as a business expense. For example, I have the experience of taking ten years to be elected, involving six elections. I had an enormous overdraft and I do not see why that should not be regarded in all cases as a business expense. I believe this should also apply to unsuccessful candidates, which would at least provide an equal playing field. I see no reason for this restriction on the allowance. First, it must be vouched, then it is reduced and then it is constrained.

If we stripped ourselves naked and gave all our worldly goods to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and jumped off the roof of this House, the public would not pay a blind bit of notice. Therefore, we are fooling ourselves if we think they will be impressed by this lot. There will not be a blind bit of attention.

I have also tried on several occasions to amend legislation of this kind in order to ensure that, for example, it is allowed against income tax. I would be very interested to hear what the Minister has to say about that. It is a very unusual job where entering the nomination process or applying for the job is so hazardous and uncertain and requires the spending of considerable amounts of money. By the time the various reforms have gone through - it is obvious the Government is going to start with the universities - we will have enormous constituencies. How are we to reach them? How on earth is a new person going to break through the system if he or she does not get any allowance? I will reserve my other comments to speaking on the section.

I see no good reason a Member who has been elected should not be allowed to use some of this money to defray electoral expenses. Maybe there should be a system where, based on the number of votes the candidate gets, there would be a sliding scale of reimbursement. I do not actually take seriously the Government's moral stance. I think this is all a degree of political posturing. If the Government was serious it would look at the way in which the Presidency is regarded. In terms of the Presidency, the entire financial structure has been deliberately skewed by the political parties in every possible way, including financial, against the running of an Independent.

The constitutional review body was set up and it passed various ideas. The Government selected those it agreed with and ran with them and simply tossed into the bin those with which it did not agree. Some of those with which it ran were passed by a very small number of votes, in single digits. In regard to one regarding reform of the Presidency and access to the Presidency - I have no intention at the moment of ever offering myself to the Irish people again in that role so I have no personal axe to grind - there is a democratic axe to grind. I find it quite extraordinary and I hope somewhere out there somebody is listening because I know there are those reporters who castigate us and say there were only six Members in the Chamber when the Minister rose to speak. There is not a single one there at the moment. These was one decent Member in the House for about half an hour but he seems to have evaporated. They always say they may not ever have been in the Seanad and probably could not find their way to it if they tried, but are always watching it on the monitor. Hello out there, if anybody is watching on the monitors, the Constitutional Convention passed by 95% to 5% - that was the voice of the people - that the question of nomination to the Presidency and the way in which electoral expenses were dispersed should be looked at. To put this in context, if the Minister is serious - I believe there is a degree of seriousness in him but I am not sure at what percentage I would evaluate it - about overall reform, he has to look at this if we want equality for our citizens. In the Presidential election the candidate can be funded through the electoral parties and does not have to report it.

They can pay for posters, propaganda, cars or whatever it is and they get three times the amount of donations that can be made before disclosure of the donor is required as political parties that are already at huge advantage nationally. Does the Minister think that fits in with what he claims is the ethos of this Bill?

I do not speak for the Independents but as an Independent. I will always speak in what I believe is in the interest of maintaining a strong independent voice in Irish politics. I have further remarks to make on the section but I will stop because I think we should push on with the Bill.