Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister back to the House. This is an interesting process. There is something fundamentally wrong and unfair about the way the business of party allowances is being done at the moment for Members who find themselves, often for very honourable motives, outside the party Whip system in the middle of a term. We want the Minister to think this one through and come up with a way that would be acceptable to live with. As it stands at the moment, it is not acceptable or fair.

Senator O'Keeffe made a good point last week, as did the Minister today, that there are costs to running a political system. However, I felt there was a bias towards the party system because it was only a case of funding parties. What about Independents? The Minister made a very valid point today that this is about how the State supports the parliamentary system. Should the State not support Independents who find themselves outside the parliamentary Whip system in the midst of a term? Surely we are no less parliamentarians than Members of a political party. I think not, nor do the people who elected us feel that way.

The Minister also mentioned that parties make commitments to staff following elections, and that was a valid argument, but it does not hold. In the middle of a term during the last parliamentary session, Deputy George Lee resigned. His secretary was not kept on. She was let go. No commitment made to her was kept. Senator van Turnhout made a very valid argument that we can always give a notice period, and that there is nothing wrong with stating that there is three months' notice. Senator Bradford and I are out of the Fine Gael Party since last July, so I think it would be valid if there was a cooling off period whereby a party could retain the allowance for a certain number of months. We could live with that, but it is not fair that people conducting parliamentary business are not equally validated by the allowance system.

We are very honourably saying that at the very least, the moneys should be given back to the Exchequer. However, given his logic last week and following the debate, a number of people said to us that on the basis of his argument, it would be appropriate for those of us who were members of a party but who are now independent to build the appropriate party for the services we are getting paid for as a result of being elected Members.

Is the Minister saying that is appropriate? The current logic does not follow. Between the Members of Seanad Éireann and Dáil Éireann at least four members of the Labour Party and eight members of Fine Gael, a total of 12, have left their parties. Is the Minister saying those Members do not have costs in running their political affairs? Of course they do. Are those costs any less because they exercised a conscience vote or otherwise? They are not.

As it stands, this is an insider job for parties and that is not good business. It is not transparent, honest, open and certainly not reforming. Let us face the fact that I and all Members, including the Minister and the Government, stood for election on the basis of reform and doing things better with less. This is about trying to get more for less; it is trying to keep a lot more money for fewer Members. That is not fair or just. As Senator Bradford said, we will not push it to a vote today. We will see the process through. We want it to be open, honest, transparent and, above all, fair. Everyone deserves a chance, and every parliamentary party Member and Independent Member deserves a chance. There is a cost to their doing business, so let the cost go to the person to whom it belongs. In this case we are putting up our hands and saying that we are happy that our allowances be given back to the State.