Sean Barrett (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House. I recall, in my student days, that the Minister for Transport and Power, as the title then was, the late Mr. Erskine Childers, who was later President, said at a meeting in college that the drawings he got of the ESB headquarters were a lot different to how it actually turned out. There is a cautionary note as to what advice is fed into the political system from the engineering professions.

As Senator Byrne said, this debate has been dominated very strongly by producers and consumers and the public at large feel they can be trampled over. The motion covers that fairly well. It asks for legislation in regard to the planning of high voltage electricity transmission lines. I wonder whether we are still using the 1927 Act, which dealt with putting small poles on individual farms. These pylons seem to be almost small factories located hundreds of feet up in the air. They have a bad effect on the environment and they certainly annoy people, as the public meetings to which Senator Keane and others have referred would indicate.

On the other hand, we got the first gas pipeline from Dublin to Cork built below budget and ahead of time, and without much in the way of agitation. This is one of the factors we have to build in, namely, the fact the underground pipelines Bord Gáis has laid have a greater level of acceptability. The question then becomes about the difference in cost, and I look forward to hearing what the Minister's research indicates. Proceeding by agreement with landowners is better than the kind of controversies which have been generated by the overhead cables, in particular in places like Meath.

Senator Mullen questioned why the route from Rush to Batterstown can be built underground and the one from Moy in Tyrone to Batterstown is overground. Are there different economics in the two projects? I know one route is much longer.

Pylons devalue housing, which is another point that has been made. On another point, how are we now situated in regard to the rights of way decision made just recently in the case of Lissadell? Do farmers have stronger rights now if people wish to put structures over their land? I know there is compensation for the locating of pylons, but let us say Sligo County Council had an unpleasant surprise in regard to property rights and we do not want the Minister to experience something similar. We need to sort out that issue. The planning application withdrawal by EirGrid was a major flaw in public decision making and much time was wasted on the inquiry.

Will technology change? It may well do. The Government amendment refers in several places to renewables. Are renewables viable in the light of the substantial decline in gas prices in the United States? We might say that is due to fracking and we do not like it, but it has certainly changed relative energy prices. We have the views of people who say we can bring that low cost gas into the Shannon Estuary and it would undercut the renewables and give us much better value. In addition, it could plug into the existing network, as Senator Mulcahy said, which is geared around Moneypoint, and the Ballylongford depot is not 1 million miles away.

I note the National Competitiveness Council's 2008 review of the main infrastructure issues for enterprise states that the price we are paying for renewables offshore was guaranteed at €220 per MW hour for wave and tidal energy and €140 per MW hour for offshore wind, which compared to the then wholesale price of €73 per MW hour. Some of the things which are possible in engineering terms may not make much sense in economic terms unless one attaches a really high premium to security. Where is the emergency? I know we have fears the lights will go out and so on, and that we need to have these standby systems.

If we design a new distribution system around wind farms, which of themselves are not economically viable, we will lose both on the economy and the environment.

The motion is important. There should be proper and full planning procedures for these networks. I had doubts when an earlier Government introduced strategic infrastructure legislation to jump over the planning system. "Infrastructure" just means that it is large; "strategic" means that the Government thinks it is important. It does not mean that it should not operate under the legal system. If the motion allows us to insert this into the planning system and, as Senators have said, with mediation, it could be a way to proceed. As Senator Thomas Byrne said, the issue is causing annoyance. The Minister might assert that it is unnecessary annoyance, that the cost of placing infrastructure underground has been understated and the costs of overground pylons have been seriously inflated by people on this side of the argument, but it is very useful that a House of Parliament is discussing all of these issues to see where the balance lies on environmental and economic factors. I look forward to hearing the Minister's reply.